You'll just take a pill in the future
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
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Soldato
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- 23 May 2006
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i am torn on solar farms as well but am not a nimby. if they are absolutely needed then ok but I am not comfortable with doing that but at the same time not forcing solar on all new builds and car park covers and industrial roofs .There is tons of unused fields.
Looks like we found 4 of the nimby's on here.
Got no objections to roof tops being used, but the problem with that is they tend to be just used to power that building, not as a regional resource.
also I think lake solar would be less upsetting to locals.
as for house owners using it... do you have solar ? (that isn't a dig) but 1) if it stops them drawing from the grid then it's still job done imo but 2) my system is tiny compared to a modern one (my panels are 320w modern ones may be 500w) . today my house used under 5kwh (will maybe be 9 by bed time) but I exported 23kwh. so for 6 months I still export a truck load during daylight.
end of the day this is simplistic and we still need a reliable backbone but general terms solar can cover daytime (along with wind) with storage for the evening (and wind). in winter we get more wind (but solar still helps)
then for the 2 weeks max (generally) dunkelflaut SP! hopefully we have some storage but also we do for now need a backbone (maybe nuclear). - but tidal is also something we should make use of.
if we (and by we I mean government and energy companies) play our cards right imo this could be a lot of skilled jobs for our kids for the next 50 years or so (and then who knows maybe nuclear fusion will happen though am not holding my breath)
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Dont have the option as I rent, This is the problem with the current method of people putting on houses as its just a personal use thing and does nothing for those who dont have that option. I get where you coming from, as I am sure people will say solar is something to be done on your own home.
I agree with the points you made about new builds etc. But I am left wondering about grid supply of solar energy.
430w is a modern mainstream panel, you can get higher but they are a lot more expensive, most people are fitting 430w as standard.
I've got 10kwp worth of panels on my roof but it is split east-west so performs more like a ~7kwp array which is south facing. Yesterday I did 57kwh and exported 49kwh to the grid, I've exported >1mwh to the grid this month alone, my bill is currently sat at -£115 after factoring the standing charge.
I don't agree its a personal use thing, it absolutely lowers bills for those who don't have solar.
I've got 10kwp worth of panels on my roof but it is split east-west so performs more like a ~7kwp array which is south facing. Yesterday I did 57kwh and exported 49kwh to the grid, I've exported >1mwh to the grid this month alone, my bill is currently sat at -£115 after factoring the standing charge.
I don't agree its a personal use thing, it absolutely lowers bills for those who don't have solar.
Not by the same amount though, I thought you would have understood the meaning of my post, there is clearly an issue on dry windless days, the logical gap for that is (more) solar supply on the grid. But yeah didnt think of the export.
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True but those others didn’t spend thousands installing it so it’s understandable the direct benefit sits with me.
Definitely, even if we are just putting panels on roof space, there is more than enough to power the entire country and then some when it’s sunny.
Soldato
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And there are countless fields vanishing in the beauty spot countryside around here all prime agricultural land and all disappearing under concrete and tarmac of new housing. And thats permanent. Funny how politicians don't seem to have an issue with that.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
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indeed. image below from a few days ago from my modest system. (I picked that because charging my car didn't mess with the scale on that day).
yes I used a bit of it myself but given I made the investment out of my own pocket I would hope no one would begrudge the 4.6kwh I used. I still exported 25kwh that involves no green belt, no agricultural land and is space already covered by building. imagine if every new house had that, every existing house which was re roofed and all new warehouses etc.
New item by Mike K
photos.app.goo.gl
there is so much potential before even starting down greenbelt imo. even farm land ... apparently some crops work really well along side solar panels.
1 proposal I have seen was installing solar strips in between rail tracks. my only concern there is how dirty they would get.
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Not really sure I agree with this take. The vast majorly of land used for solar farms and new housing/other development is not particularly productive.
Farm land isn’t a ‘beauty spot’ either, it’s industrialised land which is used to intensively farm a monoculture crop which has zero environmental benefit.
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Building a solar farm is purely an investment for the eventual owners.
Putting panels on warehouses is NOT an investment for the type of people who invest in them.
If you cannot attract the investors. They will NOT be built.
Also, the connection constraints are already likely maxed out at industrial locations, meaning there is nothing to connect said panels too. No space to install Large batteries, no chance of approval for planning to install large batteries in these locations due to fire risk. (Fire proof batteries exist, but are 2* the cost... no investor is interested)
Don't get me started on storage... Its not profitable to "store power".... Time shift it yes. But storage past a 24hour period.. no chance any investor would allow it.
Did you have DNO approval to install that number?
If you’re installing 4kWp or less then it’s a ‘fit and inform’ process. If you want to install more than 4kWp then a pre-application with the local DNO is necessary.
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Man of Honour
If 50% of homes in the UK had 4kW of panels it would result in about 60GW of capacity and I think on average solar radiation in the UK is around 1,000 kWh per kW of installed capacity per year. So that means around 60TWh per year.
UK demand is around 300 TWh per year - so that alone would be at least 1/5th of the UK demand catered for by domestic installations alone on only 50% of homes.
Then you take into consideration the positive carbon impact of using less fossil fuels, this would also drive down energy costs - since we'd need to import / produce less.
50% is a huge number though, but it just shows how much an impact solar alone can do.
Similar to @b0rn2sk8 my monthly bills are negligible owing to solar, my array is far smaller than his, but for around 8 months of the year I'm either accruing a positive balance in my account or barely spending anything on electricity. Even winter months it knocks a healthy chunk out of it (but I do have storage batteries) - and my balance has accrued over the lighter months. In about 2.5 years the panels will have almost paid for themselves. However, the immediate psychological impact of having lower monthly outgoings are huge. Though the most important reason why I got them was to reduce my reliance on the grid - whilst it may be a privileged position, my investment should help (even if only a little) energy supply for the UK by being a lower consumer of it.
UK demand is around 300 TWh per year - so that alone would be at least 1/5th of the UK demand catered for by domestic installations alone on only 50% of homes.
Then you take into consideration the positive carbon impact of using less fossil fuels, this would also drive down energy costs - since we'd need to import / produce less.
50% is a huge number though, but it just shows how much an impact solar alone can do.
Similar to @b0rn2sk8 my monthly bills are negligible owing to solar, my array is far smaller than his, but for around 8 months of the year I'm either accruing a positive balance in my account or barely spending anything on electricity. Even winter months it knocks a healthy chunk out of it (but I do have storage batteries) - and my balance has accrued over the lighter months. In about 2.5 years the panels will have almost paid for themselves. However, the immediate psychological impact of having lower monthly outgoings are huge. Though the most important reason why I got them was to reduce my reliance on the grid - whilst it may be a privileged position, my investment should help (even if only a little) energy supply for the UK by being a lower consumer of it.
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Man of Honour
Come to the solar thread in Home and Garden - we go through all the specifics and legislation needed to install large arrays.
The Harmonics caused by roof top solar is a major issue.Come to the solar thread in Home and Garden - we go through all the specifics and legislation needed to install large arrays.
Who's going to pay for the many millions of £££ worth of capacitor banks to manage it?
Soldato
There is tons of unused fields.
Looks like we found 4 of the nimby's on here.
I don't think what he said is necessarily Nimby-ism. IMO, converting unused ex-industrial areas into housing prior to using agricultural land is much better than reducing the land available for food production whilst the old abandoned industrial sites remain abandoned and derelict.
Once there are used up, certainly start looking at the agricultural land
If you disagree, I am happy to hear why.
Man of Honour
you realise modern inverters filter the harmonics out right (not being provocative, just asking a question!!)? They have to be compliant to return to the grid - hence why they're tested when commissioning and why G9x applications have to be validated by an MCS installer. Filtering our the harmonics is not complicated electrical design - perhaps older inverters had issues, but I don't believe this is to be a major issue from my colleagues that work in this space.
Now if we're talking multi GWh of solar panels, sure but even then the way they system is designed will have an impact, and harmonic filters would be in place - you're right to mention it, but from my experience and conversations it's not a major issue at the moment. That said it could be if not done properly.
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Yes, all done by a proper solar installer, I’ve got an 8kw export limitation on my installation which my inverter capacity anyway.
I’ve also got a 13.5kwh battery (AC coupled) which has its own 6kw inverter.
Edit: I should also add that I’m fully electric including a heat pump heating system and electric car (no ICE in the household). So while my system is large and protected to generates 7500kwh a year, I also project I will use that much.
We’ve not had a full year with it in yet but I’m hoping my bill is effectively just the standing charges which cover electric, heating and my car.
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That's the issue. Many installs are done on the cheap and not properly.
You then need additional filtering at connection zones.
Caporegime
Is this thread now finished? Eon next have emailed me putting my monthly DD down to £159 a month which is basically back down to pre pandemic levels for us as a family.
Man of Honour
How many really are now though? I bet if we looked at the types of inverters installed now, they all have filters in them - I very much doubt any now would have that issue.
Whilst I'm not suggesting it isn't something to consider, I think it's not as big a problem nowadays. Perhaps I'm wrong - but since bringing in the MCS in the late 2000s I think there's less and less dodgy installs now. The number of installs now is huge, I'd suggest 99% of them if not all of them are MCS certified.
It is important to capture and appreciate the issues with blindly going for something (i.e. solar in this case), however I think it's pretty well managed now.
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