Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

i managed to build up to that kind of credit last year.... but that was before we bought a brace of EVs and we still have gas heating and shower.

1 winter and with the EVs now charging at home we are now down to £730. i reckon it will be down to arouns £100 credit after another 2-3 winters, then i will have to up my £71 DD a bit.

still there is no denying, solar and battery along with time of use tariff has had a massive effect on reducing our energy bills.
 
Gas is a far cheaper way to heat your home than any non-gas alternative (including Eco7-12 and electric car tariffs).
so long as he has half decent insulation it is an absolute no brainer given the rest of his energy system. i am not binning our boiler as it is quite new but once it comes time to replace, i will be getting an ASHP as well.

I'm not privy to this exact home insulation situation, but unless he lives in an Igloo with extreme Eskimo heat-retaining secrets, I anticipate being happier with my interpretation of energy security than he is. Which involves gas, and sadly a lack of green virtue signalling against it.
 
Gas is a far cheaper way to heat your home than any non-gas alternative (including Eco7-12 and electric car tariffs).


I'm not privy to this exact home insulation situation, but unless he lives in an Igloo with extreme Eskimo heat-retaining secrets, I anticipate being happier with my interpretation of energy security than he is. Which involves gas, and sadly a lack of green virtue signalling against it.
wow you sound pretty bitter!... you are wrong however... with the right system taking into account the gas SC and self generation etc, a heat pump can work really well, no virtue signalling needed....

and that is forgetting that as people move away from gas, i am expecting the standing charge to only go one way, as fewer people are having to pay to keep the infrastructure going.
 
We are currently with Ovo and on the 'Simpler Energy' plan (Dual Fuel). I've logged into the MSE Energy club but the results are...un-clear... And the options they are offering would only save a small amount (£50-£60 a year Max). Is everyone else finding the same? We currently don't have Solar/Batteries nor an Electric car and that is unlikely to change...

Electric:
Unit rate 21.04p per kWh
Standing charge 63.98p a day

Gas:
Unit rate 5.48p per kWh
Standing charge 29.49p a day
 
Gas is a far cheaper way to heat your home than any non-gas alternative (including Eco7-12 and electric car tariffs).

It’s not when using a heat pump. A really good gas boiler is 85-92% efficient if they are configured correctly in the real world. Most just aren’t, are massively over sized, with radiators which are too small and have poor controls. Most gas boiler installations are in the 80% area in terms of efficiency.

A heat pump can be anything from 350%-450% efficient in the real world depending on the installation.

At around 350% they are on par with a good boiler install (remember most aren’t), at 400+ they are cheaper.

To get a boiler up into the 90%+ range, you basically have to install it in the same way you’d install a heat pump, meaning low flow temperatures, bigger radiators and good controls which use weather compensation. If you are going to all that effort, just use a heat pump…

I'm not privy to this exact home insulation situation, but unless he lives in an Igloo with extreme Eskimo heat-retaining secrets, I anticipate being happier with my interpretation of energy security than he is. Which involves gas, and sadly a lack of green virtue signalling against it.

Not sure what you are on about there. Gas is literally the opposite of energy security, you are reliant upon foreign imports and very vulnerable to price shocks. Where have you been for the last few years?

Electricity is less vulnerable to price shocks as only ~35% of it is produced by gas power stations these days.
 
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It’s not when using a heat pump. A really good gas boiler is 85-92% efficient if they are configured correctly in the real world. Most just aren’t, are massively over sized, with radiators which are too small and have poor controls. Most gas boiler installations are in the 80% area in terms of efficiency.

A heat pump can be anything from 350%-450% efficient in the real world depending on the installation.

At around 350% they are on par with a good boiler install (remember most aren’t), at 400+ they are cheaper.

To get a boiler up into the 90%+ range, you basically have to install it in the same way you’d install a heat pump, meaning low flow temperatures, bigger radiators and good controls which use weather compensation. If you are going to all that effort, just use a heat pump…



Not sure what you are on about there. Gas is literally the opposite of energy security, you are reliant upon foreign imports and very vulnerable to price shocks. Where have you been for the last few years?

Electricity is less vulnerable to price shocks as only ~35% of it is produced by gas power stations these days.
Where was I in the last few years you say. I rented an electric only flat and was well smug I locked in a fixed rate for 3 year deal in 2019, but got evicted. Now I've moved to a place with gas, and am glad how little my energy bill has increased thanks to gas (despite my tariff being double what it was in my old flat)

I thought it was common knowledge that unless you in live in a gigantic padded specially designed house in Norway, heat pumps are utterly ineffective.

It should also be common knowledge that the UK could provide it's own energy security via North Sea gas and oil, but we won't be having that, as whatever we produce will be floated on the international market, even if that prices the people of the UK out. Comrade Kier has also vowed we will make no progress in that direction.
 
We have an EV and a heat pump (gas now disconnected) so that bill will look very different in winter. I only used 1.6kwh of peak time electricity last month.
I would be interested to hear how your bills work out in winter. Did you build a new house or have a new build from a developer? Or did you retrofit an older house?

Have you asked for a refund on your massive balance? :D
 
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Where was I in the last few years you say. I rented an electric only flat and was well smug I locked in a fixed rate for 3 year deal in 2019, but got evicted.
I was in a rented flat with electric heating for a while (panel type heaters). It cost an absolute fortune to run. It was good you got a deal to make it bearable.
 
Where was I in the last few years you say. I rented an electric only flat and was well smug I locked in a fixed rate for 3 year deal in 2019, but got evicted. Now I've moved to a place with gas, and am glad how little my energy bill has increased thanks to gas (despite my tariff being double what it was in my old flat)

I thought it was common knowledge that unless you in live in a gigantic padded specially designed house in Norway, heat pumps are utterly ineffective.

It should also be common knowledge that the UK could provide it's own energy security via North Sea gas and oil, but we won't be having that, as whatever we produce will be floated on the international market, even if that prices the people of the UK out. Comrade Kier has also vowed we will make no progress in that direction.
Did your flat have a heat pump though? So much misinformation out there, as for mentioning energy security and gas in the same sentence... very short memory.
 
Where was I in the last few years you say. I rented an electric only flat and was well smug I locked in a fixed rate for 3 year deal in 2019, but got evicted. Now I've moved to a place with gas, and am glad how little my energy bill has increased thanks to gas (despite my tariff being double what it was in my old flat)
Heat pump is completely different to electric panel rads in terms of electricity consumption and therefore costs. Storage heaters are dire and always have been.

At current prices, and historic prices, heat pump is slightly cheaper than gas to run.
I thought it was common knowledge that unless you in live in a gigantic padded specially designed house in Norway, heat pumps are utterly ineffective.
No, that’s completely wrong I’m afraid. If anything you get worse performance in Norway due to lower outside temperatures.

If your property has a higher heat loss because it’s not as well insulated, you just need a bigger heat pump and bigger radiators. That’s exactly the same as on a gas boiler.

Newer property, more insulation, fewer smaller radiators, tiny boiler. Older property, less insulation, bigger boiler, more and bigger radiators.

It should also be common knowledge that the UK could provide it's own energy security via North Sea gas and oil, but we won't be having that, as whatever we produce will be floated on the international market, even if that prices the people of the UK out. Comrade Kier has also vowed we will make no progress in that direction.
That ship sailed with decades ago when the oil and gas rights were sold off to the private sector and the likes of BP and British Gas were privatised.

We’re a net importer anyway so will always be vulnerable to price shocks.

I would be interested to hear how your bills work out in winter. Did you build a new house or have a new build from a developer? Or did you retrofit an older house?
They should be less, it was a retrofit into a ~20 year old house which also has plastic microbore piping.

Bills should be lower, even ignoring the solar. It went in just before Aprils cold snap and early results were encouraging.

It replaced an old non-condensing boiler that heated a thermal store which leaked heat like crazy. In winter it didn’t really add to bills as the heating is on but in summer…

Have you asked for a refund on your massive balance? :D
No, I’ll leave it for now and see how it pans out over winter. I’ve got no idea where it will land at the end of the winter, it should be less than last winter but the question is by how much.

In theory the solar should cover all my energy usage in terms of raw KWh used.

But when it’s being generated and used are at very different times so I’ll see how I get on over winter and leave the DD at a token amount. I’m on a time of use tariff now which throws a big spanner into the works.

My flat had storage heaters on an Economy 7 tariff. It did not have a heat pump.

Now I have gas, and am very glad :)

<removed> in their massive homes and safe communities are somehow suggesting climate change is on ME, because I have gas, and not on them with their holidays abroad.

I'll finish here. Why waste my words (or memes) being censored and blocked.

<removed>

I have solar, a heat pump and an EV largely for economic reasons. The fact they lower my general footprint is a bonus.

Heat pumps are cheaper to run than gas and it was cheaper to install for me thanks to government subsidies (thanks Rishi)

Solar is a complete no brainer for anyone with the cash to install and pays for itself over the course of 5-6 years.

EVs are just generally better cars to drive and own IF you can charge at home. The total cost of ownership is also lower for me.
 
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damn gutted I missed the deleted responses and only by a few mins :(
I’ve edited my post as I quoted it so the mods don’t also need to remove it.

@Stu999 I’ll be honest, the main negative to a heat pump is the unit itself. Not exactly a looker and retrofitting piping is difficult to hide.

New builds should have no excuses given they has be hidden in walls during construction.
 
I’ve edited my post as I quoted it so the mods don’t also need to remove it.

@Stu999 I’ll be honest, the main negative to a heat pump is the unit itself. Not exactly a looker and retrofitting piping is difficult to hide.

New builds should have no excuses given they has be hidden in walls during construction.
regarding the looks. about 5 years ago a heatpump was being trialed in Salford iirc which was mounted into your roof.

all that was visible on the outside was a flush fan, all the rest went in the attic. I dunno why that never took off.. not for everyone of course. same people don't have an attic, others may have a complete solar roof, but for those with a north facing roof. (or for me with a small section not covered in panels ) I could imagine a roof mounted ASHP would make huge amounts of sense.
 
I think it’s just the practicalities of roof mounting it. They are heavy, like really heavy. You’d need a crane to get it to the roof. That basically rules out a retrofit.

You’d need to also get on the roof to service it. The bit that needs servicing is taking the fan off and cleaning all the debris that’s got sucked in.

Trades also don’t really like working off ladders these days, particularly if they are working for someone else. It’s not the safest and the bigger companies have pretty stringent health and safety standards for good reasons. At the end of the day, if they fall off, it’s their employer who will take the brunt of any compo face action.

The nature of heat pumps generally means one person bands don’t install them either. The unit I have weighs 88kg, it’s ideally 4 man lift just moving it. You could do it with 2 but I wouldn’t want to be doing that day in, day out with just 2.
 
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all good points I guess. shame tho. my dad was a self employed roofer and some of the stuff he did to keep prices low and negate the need for scaffold would make your toes curl.... but then he never employed anyone and just worked with his also self employed mates who were equally bat .... mental when it came to health and safety ;)
 
I am tempted to fix for the 24 months with EonNext (current supplier):

ElectricityGas
Daily standing charge63.31p31.65p
Unit rate24.09p per kWh5.93p per kWh
Assumed annual usage1,262kWh2,842kWh

My thought is the standing charge will only go one way but I am not sure how the unit charges will go over 2 years.... The cynic in me doesnt see them going down much and, if they do, they will be offset with an increase in SC anyways. Given the low usage that is used, any change in unit charge will be minimal anyways.

EDIT: The SC is for this area (even Octopus is only 2p/day less for each but only offer 12m fix max)

Thoughts?
 
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