Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[b0rn2sk8]

The DNO is also legally required to give you 3.68kw per phase so if they need to upgrade to supply your property with 3.68kw export, the cost is for them to deal with it.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The DNO is also legally required to give you 3.68kw per phase so if they need to upgrade to supply your property with 3.68kw export, the cost is for them to deal with it.

This is correct, but if you want to go over 3.68kw they can apply a fee to upgrade if the local area cannot support your export.*

Its always possible they could move that number (3.68) lower for future connections should the local area be receiving too much local generation.
Its highly unlikely IMO we will ever hit that issue.

* I believe they make the assumption that every property could at some point be exporting 3.68kw.

 

[Richie]

I'm getting annoyed with the standing charge now, for the month of July it was 42% of our total electricity bill (two occupants in a three bedroom house, no gas as we're on heating oil).

I'm guessing this is quite a high percentage and we're a relatively low use household? July usage was exceptionally high for us, I charged the plug in hybrid Jeep Compass I have as a courtesy car (what a truly awful car) a handful of times. Usually there's no car to charge.

My own SC was 68% of my June bill (I didnt use July as I was away for 2 week so it would have been even more but an unfair comparison)

Annually my SC works out at 43% of the bill though

 

[b0rn2sk8]

My own SC was 68% of my June bill (I didnt use July as I was away for 2 week so it would have been even more but an unfair comparison)

Annually my SC works out at 43% of the bill though

In which case you are either:
An abnormally low user
A solar array and/or batteries

The first is an edge case that’s effectively unavoidable.

For the latter, it’s by design.

These days we will be getting to the point that for every abnormally low user, they’ll be someone else with Solar who needs to contribute.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

To add to the above, the costs are likely to come down for people if the standard tariff was time of use.

I’m not talking about 30 min slots but big fixed blocks of the day when energy is always more expensive e.g. 4-7pm and other blocks when energy is cheaper e.g. 11am-4pm and 7pm-12pm.

This would better reflect the real cost of production.

 

[danlightbulb]

In which case you are either:
An abnormally low user
A solar array and/or batteries

The first is an edge case that’s effectively unavoidable.

For the latter, it’s by design.

These days we will be getting to the point that for every abnormally low user, they’ll be someone else with Solar who needs to contribute.

It isn't unusual to have standing charges as 50% of the bill. My bill for July was £15 standing charges, £18 volumetric.

If you have gas heating/cooking thats pretty typical.

 

[Richie]

In which case you are either:
An abnormally low user

A solar array and/or batteries

The first is an edge case that’s effectively unavoidable.

For the latter, it’s by design.

According to my latest bill, they have estimated:

1,300kWh Elec
2,900kWh Gas

It can be classed as abnormally low but that doesnt mean its not also partly by design as opposed to simply "effectively unavoidable"

Triple A appliances
LED bulbs throughout
Very modern house build with modern wall insulation, loft insulation, double glazing)
Low boiler flow rates (circa 60°C for CH and 50°C for HW) on a modern condensing boiler with weather compensation and NEST thermostats


It is pretty low. I have been complaining about the SC for the last 2-3 years now and the normal response I get is to bring my low consumption into it to shut down my argument... Which is why I now find it amusing that more and more people are now suddenly annoyed about the SC because it makes up a large and larger part of their own bill.

 

[Richie]

It isn't unusual to have standing charges as 50% of the bill. My bill for July was £15 standing charges, £18 volumetric.

If you have gas heating/cooking thats pretty typical.

I think he is referring to annual bill... To use Summer in isolation as a representation is biased... You need to use the whole year as it will be lower in Winter (I have given my annual SC portion above - it works out as 43% of my annual bill)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It isn't unusual to have standing charges as 50% of the bill. My bill for July was £15 standing charges, £18 volumetric.

If you have gas heating/cooking thats pretty typical.

It’s really not.

£18 buys you 82kwh at 22p/kwh.

Typical use is 3600kwh/year or around 10kwh per day as a dual fuel user.

£18 in a month buys you 3kWh per day.

According to my latest bill, they have estimated:

1,300kWh Elec
2,900kWh Gas

It can be classed as abnormally low but that doesnt mean its not also partly by design as opposed to simply "effectively unavoidable"

Triple A appliances
LED bulbs throughout
Very modern house build with modern wall insulation, loft insulation, double glazing)
Low boiler flow rates (circa 60°C for CH and 50°C for HW) on a modern condensing boiler with weather compensation and NEST thermostats


It is pretty low. I have been complaining about the SC for the last 2-3 years now and the normal response I get is to bring my low consumption into it to shut down my argument... Which is why I now find it amusing that more and more people are now suddenly annoyed about the SC because it makes up a large and larger part of their own bill.

Your usage is 1/3 of a typical household on electric and well below 1/3 typical on gas, of course the fixed element of the bill is going to be a higher proportion.

A modern efficiency house doesn’t really change electricity consumption either. Cheap AAA appliances have been available for a decade or more, it’s got to the point they e had to change the rating scheme because everything was AAA.

Unfortunately the charges are structured around typical use, not edge cases like you AND me.

I think he is referring to annual bill... To use Summer in isolation as a representation is biased... You need to use the whole year as it will be lower in Winter (I have given my annual SC portion above - it works out as 43% of my annual bill)

Electric usage for a typical person is not substantially different between summer and winter anymore thanks to things like LED lighting.

 

[danlightbulb]

I think he is referring to annual bill... To use Summer in isolation as a representation is biased... You need to use the whole year as it will be lower in Winter (I have given my annual SC portion above - it works out as 43% of my annual bill)

Electricity will be pretty stable across the year if you have gas heating.

 

[danlightbulb]

Typical use is 3600kwh/year

That is typical use. So assume somewhere around average. That means half of people will be lower than that. So its not abnormally low as you were suggesting. It maybe is in the bottom 20-30%.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

That is typical use. So assume somewhere around average. That means half of people will be lower than that. So its not abnormally low as you were suggesting. It maybe is in the bottom 20-30%.

3kWh a day is absolutely abnormally low if you don’t have solar and batteries.

Just running appliances like a fridge/freezer will be making up most of that load.

 

[Richie]

Your usage is 1/3 of a typical household on electric and well below 1/3 typical on gas, of course the fixed element of the bill is going to be a higher proportion.

A modern efficiency house doesn’t really change electricity consumption either. Cheap AAA appliances have been available for a decade or more, it’s got to the point they e had to change the rating scheme because everything was AAA.

Unfortunately the charges are structured around typical use, not edge cases like you AND me.

Sure but that doesn't mean I am unjustified in believing the SC is higher than it could be and is not helped by the fact that there is no info out there breaking down the actual costs in £ and p.

Electric usage for a typical person is not substantially different between summer and winter anymore thanks to things like LED lighting.

Electricity will be pretty stable across the year if you have gas heating.

I didnt realise the discussion was solely on electric and excluded gas.

 

[danlightbulb]

3kWh a day is absolutely abnormally low if you don’t have solar and batteries.

Just running appliances like a fridge/freezer will be making up most of that load.

Its not abnormally low. Where are you getting that from?

Typical use is approx average use. Half of people (roughly) will be lower than that.

Most people have gas heating, and some people still have gas cooking.

Averaging around 3.5 kWh a day.

 

[200sols]

3kWh per day is tiny, it is abnormally low. The fixed costs are mostly unrelated to consumption, of course they will be a large % in such a scenario.

 

[danlightbulb]

3kWh per day is tiny, it is abnormally low.

Define abnormal.

Bottom 10%? Thats still a large number of people.

 

[Semple]

I disagree. The SC has gone up way too much. It was said it was to recoup the money from the companies that went bust. Surely that is done by now. Yet here we are at silly SC prices.

I think it'll be a while before those costs are recouped. Bulb for instance cost the taxpayer 3 billion. I'm not sure raising the SC by 20-30p a day will cover that anytime soon.

 

[200sols]

I think it'll be a while before those costs are recouped. Bulb for instance cost the taxpayer 3 billion. I'm not sure raising the SC by 20-30p a day will cover that anytime soon.

Octopus to repay £3bn to taxpayers for Bulb rescue

The government will recover almost all the cost of temporarily nationalising Bulb in 2021.

www.bbc.co.uk

Also 20p a day covers a lot, that is £73 a year x 29million electricity meters, thats a lot of cash.

 

[danlightbulb]

Chat GPT's view is that 10-15% of households would use less than 1100 kWh per day, and that 'abnormally' low would need to be less than 5%.

You said:​

How much electricity does a typical household use in the UK.

ChatGPT said:​

A typical household in the UK uses around 2,900 kWh (kilowatt-hours) of electricity per year. This estimate applies to an average medium-sized household with standard usage. However, this figure can vary depending on factors such as the size of the home, the number of occupants, energy efficiency measures, and the use of electrical appliances.
Here’s a breakdown of typical usage patterns:

• Low usage household: Approximately 1,800 kWh per year.
• Medium usage household: Approximately 2,900 kWh per year.
• High usage household: Approximately 4,300 kWh per year.

These figures provide a general idea, but actual consumption can differ based on individual lifestyle and energy habits.

You said:​

what proportion of households fall into the low and high usage categories?

ChatGPT said:​

In the UK, household electricity usage can be categorized into low, medium, and high consumption groups. While specific statistics on the exact proportion of households in each category can vary depending on the source and year, general estimates suggest the following distribution:

• Low usage households (around 1,800 kWh/year): Approximately 25-30% of households.
• Medium usage households (around 2,900 kWh/year): Approximately 40-50% of households.
• High usage households (around 4,300 kWh/year or more): Approximately 20-25% of households.

These estimates give a broad idea of the distribution, but the actual proportion may fluctuate due to changes in energy efficiency, adoption of renewable energy, or shifting energy consumption patterns across different regions and household types.

You said:​

What proportion of households use less than 1100 kWh per year?

ChatGPT said:​

A relatively small proportion of UK households use less than 1,100 kWh of electricity per year. Estimates suggest that around 10-15% of households fall into this very low usage category. These households typically include:

• Small homes or apartments with few occupants.
• Households with highly energy-efficient appliances and lighting.
• Households that use alternative energy sources (like solar) or primarily rely on gas for heating and cooking.
• Properties that are unoccupied for part of the year, such as holiday homes.

The low usage also reflects frugal energy habits or minimal reliance on electrical appliances.

You said:​

What proportion of something would you class as abnormally low?

ChatGPT said:​

An "abnormally low" proportion typically refers to a percentage that is significantly below the average or expected range for a given context. While there isn't a strict numerical threshold, here are some general guidelines:

• Less than 5%: This is often considered abnormally low in many contexts, especially when the expected distribution is more even or when most categories have a much higher share.
• 1% or lower: This is typically regarded as very rare or extremely low, often indicating an outlier or exceptional situation.

In your context of household electricity usage, if a category were to encompass less than 5% of households, it would likely be considered abnormally low. For example, if only 3% of households used less than 1,100 kWh/year, this would be seen as abnormally low, suggesting that such low consumption is quite rare.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Sure but that doesn't mean I am unjustified in believing the SC is higher than it could be and is not helped by the fact that there is no info out there breaking down the actual costs in £ and p.

There is info out there, it’s been posted in this thread today or yesterday. They did a review in 2021.

I didnt realise the discussion was solely on electric and excluded gas.

It doesn’t but the standing charges on gas are basically half that of electricity.

Its not abnormally low. Where are you getting that from?

Typical use is approx average use. Half of people (roughly) will be lower than that.

Most people have gas heating, and some people still have gas cooking.

Averaging around 3.5 kWh a day.

Even with gas cooking 3kWh a day IS extremely low.

You still need a base level of power to run the basics in a house. You really have to go out of your way to consume so little and is likely only possible as a single person without solar and batteries.

You are an edge case, just accept it.

I think it'll be a while before those costs are recouped. Bulb for instance cost the taxpayer 3 billion. I'm not sure raising the SC by 20-30p a day will cover that anytime soon.

It’s been fully recovered already, if it almost fully recovered.