Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[danlightbulb]

Seems we can only use ranges that support your argument though. I'm guessing house size pushes you further into the 'abnormal' zone as well.

What ranges have I used that don't support my argument? Im quite clearly saying that the accepted convention is the 5 and 95 percentiles to define the normal range.

Its not the house size that matters really, its the occupants (if you have gas heating). Would be correlated of course but not perfectly. Lots of 3 beds around occupied by 2 or less people.

 

[200sols]

What ranges have I used that don't support my argument? Im quite clearly saying that the accepted convention is the 5 and 95 percentiles to define the normal range.

Its not the house size that matters really, its the occupants (if you have gas heating). Would be correlated of course but not perfectly. Lots of 3 beds around occupied by 2 or less people.

There is correlation. Again go back to the Ofgem stats. I'm sure once you factor in house size and renewables as said above you'd be in your chatgpt 'abnormal' range as well, unlike height in your example there are many more variables at play in the energy equation.

 

[danlightbulb]

There is correlation. Again go back to the Ofgem stats. I'm sure once you factor in house size and renewables as said above you'd be in your chatgpt 'abnormal' range as well, unlike height in your example there are many more variables at play in the energy equation.

I'm keen to understand where you think my electricity use is low. What devices do 'normal' people have that I don't?

Most houses have gas heating. Often some older smaller rentals or flats won't and so those will rely on electric heating so that bumps up their usage.

There's probably a lower proportion of houses these days that have gas ovens like mine, although many still have gas hobs.

I agree with you it's not apples and oranges being compared but that's why I'm saying my electricity usage isn't abnormally low. It's normal for a house with gas heating. Do you agree having gas heating is normal?

There's all kinds of normal, so the Ofgem range is pretty useless.

Let me just reinforce here:
Having gas heating is 'normal'.
Having a gas hob is 'normal'
Having a fridge, TV, computer, led lights, various phone chargers, washing machine, are all 'normal'.

So why is my electricity usage for that configuration considered abnormal by you?

I would probably extrapolate that the Ofgem range is being skewed badly upwards by the smaller proportion of houses with electric heating.

 

[chrcoluk]

3kWh a day is absolutely abnormally low if you don’t have solar and batteries.

Just running appliances like a fridge/freezer will be making up most of that load.

According to Tapo my fridge is using about 1 kWh a day currently, and its about double of what it was consuming in winter. (The live consumption on Tapo does match the amount on the smart meter when fridge cooling is on vs off.)

This is with fridge set to 3C and freezer set to -18C and has auto defrost

My typical usage overall is 6-7 a day although can be lower or higher.

 

[200sols]

I agree with you it's not apples and oranges being compared but that's why I'm saying my electricity usage isn't abnormally low. It's normal for a house with gas heating. Do you agree having gas heating is normal?

Its not normal though, the ofgem figures are for dual fuels. The ones for electricity only are significantly higher.

I would probably extrapolate that the Ofgem range is being skewed badly upwards by the smaller proportion of houses with electric heating.

Nope. Electricity only households tend to be on different tariffs, there is a seperate column for traditional electricity only usage (economy 7 etc) and the electricity figures are higher.

 

[danlightbulb]

My typical usage overall is 6-7 a day although can be lower or higher.

What other larger electric appliances do you have? Electric oven and hob perhaps? Dishwasher?

 

[danlightbulb]

Its not normal though, the ofgem figures are for dual fuels. The ones for electricity only are significantly higher.

Nope. Electricity only households tend to be on different tariffs, there is a seperate column for traditional electricity only usage (economy 7 etc) and the electricity figures are higher.

So I'll ask again what appliances don't I have that the 80% of the rest of households do?

What's your response to this:

Let me just reinforce here:
Having gas heating is 'normal'.
Having a gas hob is 'normal'
Having a fridge, TV, computer, led lights, various phone chargers, washing machine, are all 'normal'.

So why is my electricity usage for that configuration considered abnormal by you?

 

[chrcoluk]

What other larger electric appliances do you have? Electric over and hob perhaps? Dishwasher?

Its PC and and PC type equipment mostly I think.

So multiple managed switches/APs, NUC for firewall, 2nd PC repurposed as NAS on 24/7 (although sometimes I turn it off), few things on standby like tv, few LED bulbs used for several hours a day. I have a extractor in bathroom. Then things like oven, kettle, shower occasional use.

I think 6 units a day is reasonable enough.

Last time I went away for few days, I only left fridge, networking equipment on, and 2 lights, plus a camera. It still used 3 kWh. You be surprised how much things that are on 24/7 can consume. As an example a few high end networking gear combined wattage of 100w, if its on 24/7 thats the bulk of it. LED bulbs whilst efficient still consume measurable amounts.

 

[200sols]

So I'll ask again what appliances don't I have that the 80% of the rest of households do?

I don't know why your usage is so low do I? Perhaps you are just ultra frugal.

They are yearly figures as well, most people will be using tumble dryers half the year etc.

 

[danlightbulb]

I don't know why your usage is so low do I? Perhaps you are just ultra frugal.

They are yearly figures as well, most people will be using tumble dryers half the year etc.

I'm not at all frugal, I don't make any effort to be. My low electricity use is because I have gas heating and gas cooking. It's that simple.

 

[danlightbulb]

Its PC and and PC type equipment mostly I think.

So multiple managed switches/APs, NUC for firewall, 2nd PC repurposed as NAS on 24/7 (although sometimes I turn it off), few things on standby like tv, few LED bulbs used for several hours a day. I have a extractor in bathroom. Then things like oven, kettle, shower occasional use.

I think 6 units a day is reasonable enough.

Last time I went away for few days, I only left fridge, networking equipment on, and 2 lights, plus a camera. It still used 3 kWh. You be surprised how much things that are on 24/7 can consume. As an example a few high end networking gear combined wattage of 100w, if its on 24/7 thats the bulk of it. LED bulbs whilst efficient still consume measurable amounts.

Most people don't have a bunch of server equipment, that's quite 'abnormal' isn't it.

I'm beating the drum on this because my usage really isn't abnormal at all. Seems people have got greedy with appliances and although I haven't deliberately tried to be frugal, I've naturally ended up there because I don't have lots of labour saving appliances.

 

[200sols]

I'm not at all frugal, I don't make any effort to be. My low electricity use is because I have gas heating and gas cooking. It's that simple.

Those figures are for dual fuel customers. Aka gas heating. The figures are quite clear though, your use is abnormally low.

 

[danlightbulb]

Those figures are for dual fuel customers. Aka gas heating. The figures are quite clear though, your use is abnormally low.

Define abnormal? I will only accept the answer of outside the 5th or 95th percentiles.

 

[chrcoluk]

Most people don't have a bunch of server equipment, that's quite 'abnormal' isn't it.

I'm beating the drum on this because my usage really isn't abnormal at all. Seems people have got greedy with appliances and although I haven't deliberately tried to be frugal, I've naturally ended up there because I don't have lots of labour saving appliances.

Yeah but I also dont do things that typical families do, I dont use my TV, I cook much less food, I dont use my games consoles much.

I am not sure I would call 3 units a day abnormally low but rather just a very low usage level, I have come across people on social media with that low usage (usually low tech people that turn things off, no standby etc.), I was mainly just commenting on what my fridge is measured at.

 

[krooton]

I'm not at all frugal, I don't make any effort to be. My low electricity use is because I have gas heating and gas cooking. It's that simple.

I have gas heating and gas hob, 2 people, and we use 8kwh leccy on average per month. And we are not high end users by any stretch (we only boil the kettle once per day even).

 

[danlightbulb]

Here’s a list of the proportion of UK households with each appliance:

1. **Washing Machine**: About 98% of UK households.
2. **Electric Shower**: Approximately 60% of UK households.
3. **Electric Oven**: Around 66% of UK households.
4. **Electric Hob**: Around 62% of UK households.
5. **Dishwasher**: Around 44% of UK households.
6. **Tumble Dryer**: Around 56% of UK households.

These figures represent average ownership rates, which can vary slightly based on the data source and the year of the survey.

Right I asked chatgpt what proportion of households had the above appliances.

I only have the washing machine out of that list.

So working out the frequency of my situation using that data we would have:

No electric shower = 0.4
No electric oven = 0.34
No electric hob = 0.38
No dishwasher = 0.56
No tumble dryer = 0.44

Multiplying those together gives me 0.013 or 1.3%

So I am abnormal (less than 5%ile) in ownership of appliances (with the caveat that I don't know what the chatgpt data source is of course).

 

[danlightbulb]

I have gas heating and gas hob, 2 people, and we use 8kwh leccy on average per month. And we are not high end users by any stretch (we only boil the kettle once per day even).

Do you have a lot of kitchen appliances or server equipment?

 

[darkgen]

Hmm, some of these electricity usages are interesting. I just checked for a period while I was out of the country and the baseline during that time was just under 4kw a day. Not sure if that is high or not considering the only devices that I'm aware of would be the fridge/freezer, router / NAS and some automated lights. Average daily consumption when I'm home fluctuates between 6 - 9kw per day.

 

[200sols]

with the caveat that I don't know what the chatgpt data source is of course).

Why don't you ask it?

 

[chrcoluk]

I also have a Tapo on my primary UPS power point.

I selected a bar which seemed in the middle for the month and was 2.51 kWh for the day, so consider that the average.

Things connected to the UPS

Main desktop PC
2 monitors, one is standby most of the time though.
PS5 usually off or in rest mode.
Intel N100 NUC cooled by two tiny fans powered by USB. I also have a small fan I am using during the summer powered via one of the USB ports.
Qotom i5 broadwell NUC. occasional use but mostly standby.
Netgear WAX206.
Cityfibre ONT. (calix 1100g)
The UPS itself cyberpower CP1500EPFCLCD. (apparently these have a fair amount of wasted wattage, for creep charging etc, the main reason I plugged in the tapo to investigate but never actually checked it yet with everything on the UPS powered off.)

I think thats it but may have missed something.