Panic over hahaJust to update on this, it transpires that the person that originally posted the info had selected the economy 7 tariff by mistake and not realised it was comparing it to his current tariff (IOG)
Sorry for the false alarm.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
- Thread starter DXP55
- Start date
exactly - Starmer & crew need to think a little more competently than Tories to modify schemes (like ev too) so that in particular for HP's the middle men are not installing inappropriate
less efficient products to naive consumers just to get their hands on part of these funds (like the current scandals on bad home cavity+external insulation )
to also avoid the scenario when someone tries to sell the house and the HP heating system is criticized/marked-down on the survey, too.
[ e: a good read about heat pump installs I'd posted in hp thread https://media.nesta.org.uk/documents/How_to_reduce_the_cost_of_heat_pumps_v4_1.pdf
]
e2: updated report https://www.nesta.org.uk/report/how...ffordable/a-summary-of-our-scenarios/#content
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It could be a bit if a nightmare buying a house with a heat pump installed but without an upgrade to its insulation or radiator upgrades necessary to complement the system. EV charging is a relatively simple add on to a house but whole house heating and hot water requires more than an electrician to devise and certify.
Reality = the vast majority of installs are fine. You only hear about the dodgy ones because that is what sells adverts on your rag of choice.
The irony is the worst examples of utterly terrible installs I have seen are on new builds where there isn’t any grant funding available.
The issue that no one talks about is the vast majority of condensing boilers are also badly installed and materially under perform and yet no one seems to care.
You don’t need to upgrade your insulation for a heat pump, it has no bearing on its performance.
Now you should do the basics like loft insulation because you know energy prices are £lol but that’s irrespective of the heat source. Windows and doors are the other place to make good gains if you don’t have double glazing but they are expensive.
However going further is optional, retrofitting wall insulation isn’t risk free and no one’s going to recommend ripping up an uninsulated concrete floor to insulated it unless you are doing it for another reason, even when installing UFH, it’s not worth the hassle.
Most heat pumps can give you an indication of their performance on their controllers. The other obvious one is the size of the energy bill.
If consumers educated themselves on what a well for forming heating system looks like (gas or heat pump) they’d have lower bills and less problems.
Soldato
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Quick one as I am not very bright with this stuff.
Presently on Octopus tracker
If I goto Loyal Octopus 16M Fixed
The quoted monthly payments they have on there. Is that FIXED or does that change depending upon usage.
Am I just buying the Unit costs for x16 months
Thanks
Presently on Octopus tracker
If I goto Loyal Octopus 16M Fixed
The quoted monthly payments they have on there. Is that FIXED or does that change depending upon usage.
Am I just buying the Unit costs for x16 months
Thanks
Yes, you buy the unit price.
The ‘price’ they show you is just the unit price multiplied by an arbitrary number. Honestly they need to move away from it. It breeds confusion.
The number isn’t arbitrary, it’s either based on your historical usage if you are an existing customer or if you are a new one it’s based on the number you input for your usage or an estimate based on typical use (e.g. average use for a 4 bed house if you live in a 4 bed house).
This is the junk part. It’s inaccurate and in the near future, even more so as we move to time of day pricing etc.
If people know their usage, then can do their own maths if they choose. If not, just show us the unit rate. Price-cap also needs to be explained this way.
you can see the unit rates, they will be displayed with the typical use number.
The reason the typical use number exists is because of the huge cohort of people who don’t understand what a kWh is or how that may translate into a monthly bill in £. Is isn’t an issue with suppliers, it’s an issue with people who are too lazy to educate themselves and a small number of vulnerable people who are never going to understand it.
The number is helpful as a point of comparison and it’s only ever been that, a point of comparison.
The reason the typical use number exists is because of the huge cohort of people who don’t understand what a kWh is or how that may translate into a monthly bill in £. Is isn’t an issue with suppliers, it’s an issue with people who are too lazy to educate themselves and a small number of vulnerable people who are never going to understand it.
The number is helpful as a point of comparison and it’s only ever been that, a point of comparison.
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Aren’t they also mandated to provide that information?
I've been monitoring the prices for a few days and they seem to be dropping rapidly. Could this be due to the talk of peace in Ukraine? Who knows.
OVO are cheaper on both unit rate and also much cheaper on their standing charges by about 15p a day on each fuel.
Now debating hanging on to see if they drop any further, but obviously without waiting too long in case they start to creep back up.
Not sure I agree with this.
There is something called EAC "estimated annual consumption", even if you have bills not based on estimated readings, the predicted annual usage is still an estimation. It is a big factor on these cost estimations, and also seems to now be a factor on switches as well when a final meter reading is used as a closing reading (EAC can be used to calculate this reading). Its a huge part of the horrible fixed direct debit system which is dominant in the market.
EAC will have a seasonal adjustment which may or may not be relevant to the customer, it will also be a problem if the billpayer hasnt been at the address very long or usage patterns changed for another reason.
To me the real problem is people need educating on basic mathematics, but instead and how these bills work, everything seems to be catered around people who cant budget, and dont understand managing bills.
I go to a comparison site, and its spouting nonsense based on some nonsensical annual cost, and a direct debit figure, its actually hard work to get the really important information which is SC, unit rate, TOU information and exit fee information, that is usually hidden behind a silly predicted annual cost.
All of the quoted EAC given to me by Octopus over the years have been wildly off the mark (in the too high direction), and this still didnt change after years of having a smart meter. Their final reading was inflated, they refused to use the supplied reading, in the end I managed to get a credit from them for it. But they refused to an actual correct rebill.
I think it should be a requirement that if someone gets a grant for help with energy debt they have some educating on how the bills and tariffs work, there was a OCUK member some time ago posting he got a grant, but remained confused on his billing afterwards as all they did was give him the grant but no information to help him understand bills. It also I think needs to be added to basic school education, probably the final year or two before GCSE exams.
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Ovo and Outfox the market (these guys are back??) Look cheapest for me.
Will they stay or will they go? Reliability is good too.
Out Fox never left, they didn’t go bust when every other small supplier did. I guess they just stopped taking on loss making customers to whether the storm and now they are back in customer acquisition mode.
Pretty much all suppliers other than Octopus and Eon have been haemorrhaging customers and it’s a bit of an issue.
Pretty much all suppliers other than Octopus and Eon have been haemorrhaging customers and it’s a bit of an issue.
I almost fell for that when I moved to them, the one year fix without the boiler cover is still cheaper than what I'm on now though.
Hopefully the Ukraine war will end soon and prices start falling but I won't hold my breath, there's always another excuse round the corner to keep prices inflated.