Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

So the utility companies are selling evergy at a loss due to government intervention but we need to windfall companies cause of their profits and the government not doing anything ? Right

What we need is investment in power generation. Hand outs won’t solve the problem

Even £20billion wouldn’t cover the average increase that’s coming to 30m houses
 
Am I worth fixing now given rise in Oct?

From June would be 27.63p / 7.28p variable vs 37.98p / 9.78p fixed plus 44.75p / 27.22p standing charge on either.

Is it simply a case of adding 80% to the variable rate and taking into account the period between June and Oct would be at the higher rate if I fixed.
 
There is far less vertical integration in the electricity industry than there was. The carbopocalpse has sacred many off. Scottish Power and EON have exited the generation business and RWE has exited the consumer business. It's not just the electricity industry either. Companies are disengaging strategically important carbon intensive industries from the wider business to limit the impact of environmental legislation.
 
Simon said:
So the utility companies are selling evergy at a loss due to government intervention but we need to windfall companies cause of their profits and the government not doing anything ? Right

What we need is investment in power generation. Hand outs won’t solve the problem

Even £20billion wouldn’t cover the average increase that’s coming to 30m houses
Click to expand...

If they need investment why are they paying massive dividends?
These companies have been in positions for years to improve their infrastructure. Heck, I know first hand because I worked on their assets. They cut maintenance budgets to the bone. CapEx didn't exist. It was all profit profit profit.
 
PlacidCasual said:
There is far less vertical integration in the electricity industry than there was. The carbopocalpse has sacred many off. Scottish Power and EON have exited the generation business and RWE has exited the consumer business. It's not just the electricity industry either. Companies are disengaging strategically important carbon intensive industries from the wider business to limit the impact of environmental legislation.
Click to expand...
yes - I think you replied this before , in the looser context of supplier and generator companies both part of the same conglomerate, (sse/octopus/centrica...)
if they are mutually negotiating energy at preferential rates, as I suggested, it is a vertical integration
- are there any particular financial laws that would limit this insider/cartelish behaviour.
 
jpaul said:
- are there any particular financial laws that would limit this insider/cartelish behaviour.
Click to expand...
Loads, REMIT for instance requires the the generators to announce publicly changes to availability through breakdown or overhaul as soon as it reasonably known and the traders of their companies cannot trade until positions are public. It's to prevent engineering of high prices by moving downtime against pre-traded positions. There are others. Generation is quite a highly regulated industry the churn in trades is in the 10's and 100's of billions. for each company per year.
 
jpaul said:
yes - I think you replied this before , in the looser context of supplier and generator companies both part of the same conglomerate, (sse/octopus/centrica...)
if they are mutually negotiating energy at preferential rates, as I suggested, it is a vertical integration
- are there any particular financial laws that would limit this insider/cartelish behaviour.
Click to expand...

Not really at least for the financial rules they need to comply with (UK Law), within a group its called transfer pricing and you can charge internal companies what you want, its certainly not insider/cartelish behaviour from a finance perspective.

Where it gets tricky is when they cross borders and hence in effect you can have profit transfer from one national entity to another, and the taxes applicable within that country.
Its specifically why many large companies operate cross border and setup in low tax regimes lets not forget.

I would suspect that they do not in fact do any kind of preferential pricing, but sell to their customer facing subsidiary (which is probably legislated to have to be in the UK for our supply) at market rates in order to keep the vast bulk of the profits within their generation/distribution side.

They may even have completely decoupled the day to day running of the two sides, so they do not even specifically prioritise their own group energy above what they can buy on the market at any one time from differing sources.
At the end of the day the generation/extraction side will price their output based on supply vs demand anyway.
 
n111ck said:
Is that on both? Electric works out 1p cheaper but gas is 0.5p more expensive so guess not worth fixing on the assumption prices come down next year..
Click to expand...
Complete guess here, but I predict gas will rise a bit more and electric a bit less.
No base for assuming much. Fixing does look worse because of crazy exit fees.
But something will have to give after october price rise. Too many won't be able to pay.
 
alec said:
Complete guess here, but I predict gas will rise a bit more and electric a bit less.
No base for assuming much. Fixing does look worse because of crazy exit fees.
But something will have to give after october price rise. Too many won't be able to pay.
Click to expand...
There's no exit fee on mine - it just paying the higher rate from June to October that is putting me off particularly as something may give by October as you say..
 
Simon said:
So the utility companies are selling evergy at a loss due to government intervention but we need to windfall companies cause of their profits and the government not doing anything ? Right

What we need is investment in power generation. Hand outs won’t solve the problem

Even £20billion wouldn’t cover the average increase that’s coming to 30m houses
Click to expand...

No, we need to prioritise reducing energy consumption. If we can scale down our energy consumption, we can reduce the generation required, reducing the all round cost and increasing energy security. This was exactly what the government was so wrong about.

Are you going to be happy waiting ten years for energy prices to drop, or are you going to try and make energy savings when you can? Rhetorical question IMO.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
No, we need to prioritise reducing energy consumption. If we can scale down our energy consumption, we can reduce the generation required, reducing the all round cost and increasing energy security. This was exactly what the government was so wrong about.

Are you going to be happy waiting ten years for energy prices to drop, or are you going to try and make energy savings when you can? Rhetorical question IMO.
Click to expand...
how can we when every new tech that comes out is more power hungry then ever?

What about people who wfh?

What about businesses who own shops and use up a lot of energy to power there fridges etc?
 
jonneymendoza said:
intel and nvidia says hello
Click to expand...

Not really a fair comparison you have to look at energy/work completed which for most goods improves constantly
eg a fridge you would look at cooling/energy input.
If new fridge uses 10kwh per week and old fridge used 15kwh per week then as long as they both cooled adequately great news.

GPUs do this as well generally, take an old 1080 and a new 3080 and the 3080 will produce the same output using less energy (typically)
 
Are energy prices starting to tail off?

I'm with Scottish Power, £80/month dual-fuel fixed until the end of May. A few months ago, I was quoted £260/month if I was to fix again after May. So more than 3 times of £80. I checked the quote again more recently and it has dropped to £215/month. When I checked again this week, it has dropped further to £195/month. £195 is still extortionate compared to £80 but is this a sign of things easing off? I think the general advice on the internet is still to let the fix rate expire then move onto the variable rate.
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
Are energy prices starting to tail off?

I'm with Scottish Power, £80/month dual-fuel fixed until the end of May. A few months ago, I was quoted £260/month if I was to fix again after May. So more than 3 times of £80. I checked the quote again more recently and it has dropped to £215/month. When I checked again this week, it has dropped further to £195/month. £195 is still extortionate compared to £80 but is this a sign of things easing off? I think the general advice on the internet is still to let the fix rate expire then move onto the variable rate.
Click to expand...

No, the standard variable rate is going up by about 40% in October.

www.theguardian.com

Energy bills likely to rise by £800 in October, says Ofgem chief

Jonathan Brearley tells MPs price cap due to rise to about £2,800, blaming soaring cost of wholesale gas and electricity
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom