Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

chrcoluk · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:27

Uther said:
Wowser.

Cost of living: Energy price cap expected to double in January, experts warn

Households are set to see energy bills of £500 for the month of January alone, according to analysts.

news.sky.com

Its clearly unsustainable. If ofgem just keeps rising in line with wholesale costs they not really regulating.

I wonder if there will be attempts to redefine fuel poverty now.

Until recently, a household was officially considered to be in fuel poverty if it spends more than 10% of its income on energy. The definition is still commonly used.

To avoid fuel poverty in January, a household would need to earn £38,500 - but the average after tax is just £31,400 per year.

MadMossy · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:35

If half of UK households cannot afford electricity, the system is clearly broken and there will be trouble.

Sinbad2000 · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:36

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1552333029951131648?t=Dsu_3LL2wyCXjaRyxIMFwA&s=19

NEWS: It gets worse!
I've just got uodated price cap predictions from @CornwallInsight.

The latest spike in year-ahead wholesale price means the OCT cap prediction is now UP 78% (so £3,500/yr on typical bills) & likely up again in Jan.

Its will be desperate. Intervention needed

Doobedoo · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:38

Jokester said:
Would likely force you onto a prepay meter maybe?

Prepayment meters are great. Only pay for what you use only change tariff when you decide to use the key provided. I had a chance to switch to a ‘smart meter’ I choose to stay on a prepayment. Glad I did.

LabR@t · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:47

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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:48

chrcoluk said:
Its clearly unsustainable. If ofgem just keeps rising in line with wholesale costs they not really regulating.

I wonder if there will be attempts to redefine fuel poverty now.

Already done I posted about it the other day

New def is basically if fuel pushes you below a certain point

This new definition states that a household is said to be in fuel poverty if: They have required fuel costs that are above average (the national median level), and. Were they to spend that amount they would be left with a residual income below the official poverty line.

chrcoluk · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:49

System has gone full on extreme capitalism mode, kind of needs all consumers of energy to suddenly band together to say we not buying any energy, they would all need to be in sync with each other. Then the energy producers would need to drop price again to get any kind of revenue, as essentially what we have now is people entering a bidding war to buy energy I expect the current costs have no relation to extraction costs at all.

RockLobster · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:51

Doobedoo said:
Prepayment meters are great. Only pay for what you use only change tariff when you decide to use the key provided. I had a chance to switch to a ‘smart meter’ I choose to stay on a prepayment. Glad I did.

How do prepayment meters work with the standing charge? If you didn’t use any gas or electric for 20 days does the standing charge build up?

Surveyor · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:52

chrcoluk said:
System has gone full on extreme capitalism mode, kind of needs all consumers of energy to suddenly band together to say we not buying any energy, they would all need to be in sync with each other. Then the energy producers would need to drop price again to get any kind of revenue, as essentially what we have now is people entering a bidding war to buy energy I expect the current costs have no relation to extraction costs at all.

Are you prepared to live without gas or electricity for a month, two months, three months... However long it takes?

MadMossy · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:53

RockLobster said:
How do prepayment meters work with the standing charge? If you didn’t use any gas or electric for 20 days does the standing charge build up?

Isn't the standing charge just baked into the unit rates on a prepayment meter anyway?

RockLobster · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:54

MadMossy said:
Isn't the standing charge just baked into the unit rates on a prepayment meter anyway?

That’s what I don’t know. So essentially if you didn’t use any energy at all over 30 days you would be better off on a prepayment

danlightbulb · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:54

chrcoluk said:
If ofgem just keeps rising in line with wholesale costs they not really regulating

Yep what are Ofgem even doing right now. Nothing being heard from them at all. Utterly pointless organisation.

chrcoluk · 27 Jul 2022 at 19:55

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Already done I posted about it the other day

New def is basically if fuel pushes you below a certain point

This new definition states that a household is said to be in fuel poverty if: They have required fuel costs that are above average (the national median level), and. Were they to spend that amount they would be left with a residual income below the official poverty line.

So if your required fuel costs are never above average, you can never be in fuel poverty wtf.

LabR@t · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:00

I guess some will try to live without power and live of batteries, charge at work etc

chrcoluk · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:02

Surveyor said:
Are you prepared to live without gas or electricity for a month, two months, three months... However long it takes?

It doesnt matter as it wont happen, I would go without for a period of time if it meant a reset, such a standoff wouldnt last for months though. Either the purchasers of energy would give in under pressure from society or the producers would give in not been able to stomach the lack of income. Realistically we screwed until the following happens.

1 - We produce enough locally to supply ourselves.
2 - We dont sell it to ourselves at global rates.

#1 isnt enough if that urge to maximise profits is there as locally produced gas/electric would still just be sold to the highest bidder. This is why I believe we need state ownership of energy extraction infrastructure with the state having a remit it can only sell off excess energy for profit, not energy for the countries own needs.

the shadow · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:03

Those in charge will not go short of anything

LabR@t · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:09

Ww3 will fix it.
We will need to take russia

GIBURROWS · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:12

LabR@t said:
Ww3 will fix it.
We will need to take russia

You know prices were rising way before this Russia nonsense, right?

Uther · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:13

GIBURROWS said:
You know prices were rising way before this Russia nonsense, right?

Yeah Russia's just been the icing on the cake. Grim times for everyone.

Sheff · 27 Jul 2022 at 20:19

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Already done I posted about it the other day

New def is basically if fuel pushes you below a certain point

This new definition states that a household is said to be in fuel poverty if: They have required fuel costs that are above average (the national median level), and. Were they to spend that amount they would be left with a residual income below the official poverty line.

That definition has been in use for several years at least, the full reports do go into further detail and to be fair were aimed at improving energy efficiency of houses.

One thing to note is that it's based on what would be required to heat a home sufficiently, not what's actually being spent by households.