Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Haggisman]

That's not just food though, that's all groceries (home cleaning products, soaps, toiletries etc). It's 3 meals per day too for 4 people, breakfast, lunches and dinners and avoiding any processed foods (so buying raw ingredients to make meals with).

Yup, I get that, but even so, cleaning products and soaps aren't exactly that expensive and aren't an every week shop - a huge bottle of fairy is £2-3 and will last a month, likewise with bathroom spray, toothpaste etc. probably totals £10-20/month if that!

For 2 adults, and 2 kids (2 and 10) we get a weekly Morrisons shop which is £50-60 (including all toiletries etc.), and top that up every couple of days with fresh stuff like bread/milk/fruit, so probably totals £70-80/week. Can be a bit more when we run out of bulk stuff like rice, but then a 10kg bag lasts a few months. Also includes stuff to make 2 packed lunches (for my partner and the 10 year old)

Like you, that's (mostly) fresh ingredients, although with a couple of quick & easy things in there like frozen pizzas and chicken kievs to chuck in the oven for when we don't have time to cook; e.g. if the kids have clubs in the evening.

 

[Dyson]

You can use a calculator here https://ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

That must be broken, no way we should be that high up the chart!

 

[Jono8]

Totally this, and I'm getting more than a little fed up with it. The 'poorest' are getting hand out after hand out time and time again, and anyone on an average wage are getting hammered with little or no help.

Remember, originally the £400 was going to be a £200 LOAN that we'd have to pay back! Until they backtracked

Too rich to get help. Too poor for it not to matter....

 

[200sols]

That must be broken, no way we should be that high up the chart!

Everyone says that but its correct.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Standing charge is set per region as I understand it, costs per day is the same for all households in a given region.

Yeah this is residential though he then changed to mentioning corner shops after mansions so I am not really sure what he is after TBH

 

[ci_newman]

That must be broken, no way we should be that high up the chart!

Make sure you are entering your net salary (i.e. your take home after taxes and deductions) and not your gross salary.

You have to also remember that around 20% of the population are retired so massively impacts the headline figures (but they also don't have mortgages, student loans or children to pay for).

 

[mrochester]

It does get frustrating the middle earners being expected to just keep sucking it up. Normally if you earn more, you have higher outgoings so not necessarily a larger pot of cash to fall back on than someone on less income.

What is considered middle income anyway? £50-90k household income?

My very rough estimate is £44k is middle household income.

 

[Stu999]

You can use a calculator here https://ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

It confirmed I'm poor

 

[robgmun]

It does get frustrating the middle earners being expected to just keep sucking it up. Normally if you earn more, you have higher outgoings so not necessarily a larger pot of cash to fall back on than someone on less income.

What is considered middle income anyway? £50-90k household income?

Well for me I would consider it to be £30-60K, higher than that then you're in a different bracket altogether. If you earn £30k and not in debt then you're screwed.

I used to just about cover my outgoings with my salary but it looks like with the energy prices next year I'll be running a deficit

 

[413x]

Just going to have to get used to a reducing standard of living. When does it all collapse is my question?

At this rate there won't be anyone left to tax as everyone will be poor

 

[neocon]

Just going to have to get used to a reducing standard of living. When does it all collapse is my question?

At this rate there won't be anyone left to tax as everyone will be poor

There's VAT on energy

 

[Curlyriff]

Well for me I would consider it to be £30-60K, higher than that then you're in a different bracket altogether. If you earn £30k and not in debt then you're screwed.

Well middle income according to the chart (50%) is £52k so it is more around £48-£62k then. (Assume you take 40% to 60% as middle income averages)

£30k drops you right down to 15% relative. And £60k only puts you at 58% average. That hardly a different bracket altogether right.

 

[413x]

I'd say 45-70 is middle for a couple.

Obviously helps a lot if both work.

That figure is of people who work, excluding those who don't.

With modest costs (no kids, cheap house, low bills) 45 can feel "fine".

 

[robgmun]

I’m on an average wage and I’m fine with it. I’m cutting back on luxuries and being careful. Those with less than me can’t do that. They already have done. Show some compassion.

Oh dear, how naive of you, how do you know that I, along with a vast majority of people haven't already 'cut back on luxuries' over the pandemic? The last item I bought myself that can be considered a luxury was a mid-range PC 4 years ago

 

[Terminal_Boy]

It confirmed I'm poor

It confirmed what I remembered. Our joint monthly income was considerably higher than average, but after bills, mortgage and car payments, we usually had £100 disposable income at the end of the month. Not rich, but quite comfortable in the scheme of things once the kids had finidhed uni and were standing on their own 2 adult feet.

 

[XeNoNF50]

Just going to have to get used to a reducing standard of living. When does it all collapse is my question?

At this rate there won't be anyone left to tax as everyone will be poor

Perhaps when the average mortgage hits 7-9% rate from rising interest rates and enough people's existing fixed term mortgages have ended. Landlords will increase rent significantly and home owners with mortgages will have what is remaining of their disposable income disappear.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Schools in England told not to cut days over energy price rises - BBC News

I remember being at school during winter when the heating was broken and we weren't allowed to go home.

They need to get a handle on their energy waste. I was at a school on Friday that has a CHP, which has never run because the idiot installers bypassed it. It couldn't have a better setup - MVHR, UFH, plate heat exchanger for DHW (which is normally a massive culprit for ruining return temps). That could have been saving them a small fortune for years.

I have another site in Scotland that was designed for about 190 kWh/m2. They are currently using about 400 kWh/m2. No one has given a **** for years. Our cheap energy has resulted in institutionalised complacency, and now it's come back to bite us.

 

[Haggisman]

There's VAT on energy

Let's be realistic, taking off 5% from everyone's bill is a very small drop in a very big ocean of increasing costs.

 

[Goodie]

If things are really do end up as bad as people are predicting the consequences for the rest of the economy can't be good. If people are spending vast proportions of income on energy they'll be nothing left to spend on the normal goods and services.

This is what I don’t understand, I get that the idea of increased interest rates reduce spending but with essentials and energy costs so high isn’t this the same effect? So higher interests rates mean that those without big savings just get hit with a double whammy?

 

[413x]

Perhaps when the average mortgage hits 7-9% rate from rising interest rates and enough people's existing fixed term mortgages have ended. Landlords will increase rent significantly and home owners with mortgages will have what is remaining of their disposable income disappear.

It will never hit that. It won't need to get anywhere near that high to ruin people. With inescapable bills as high as they are only needs a couple more percent to break people.