Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

theone8181

theone8181

theone8181

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bigmike20vt said:
its a difficult one and i dont have the answer... as it is london get so much government support compared to the rest of the country, and when you hear comments such as Rishi's recent ones it makes me sick. Rather than building HS2 to get MORE people into london it would be much better to encourage high profit business elswhere... but i digress.

my actual point is, if you live around london - and for some this is a necessity not a choice, 300k wont get you much of a home. OTOH if you live in hull 300K will get you a wacking huge pad.

i can definitely see how someone near london could struggle with a family with single earner on 80k, whilst at the other extreme see how that may be offensive to someone living elsewhere.

the obvious answer would be to have weighted allowances, but i would have to trust the people in power not to use that as yet another stick to hit dreprived regions with whilst yet again lining pockets of afluent areas.

i live near Cambridge and am somewhat caught in the middle. our house prices are high (not quite london high and i live in the cheapest area within 20 miles of my job) but still high, but at the same time get no london salary bonuses etc.

about the only advantage (cost of living wise) to living up north is that it is much easier to live off the state up north... but that is hardly a ringing endorsement.

of course IF you can get a good job up north - and they do exist - you are laughing, its just much harder, I tried for over a year. My ex wife suggested i quit my research scientist job and become a fish packer on hull docks on minimum wage so she could go back home - i kid you not, it was the only job i could get...................................

back on topic .... heating costs are gonna be a lot higher up north too in winter. North east gets proper chilly. newcastle is absolutely baltic in winter.
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As something that lives near hull (beverley), 360k would probably open up 80% of the houses in the area, although the amount of people earning 80k round here is going to be very few.
 

McPhee

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413x said:
So I still think 80k is a damn good salary.
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Of course it's a damn good salary. An £80k salary means being in the top 5% of PAYE earners.

Though, incidentally, the suggestion which triggered this debate was reducing the PA by 60p for every £1 earned over £80k. So £80k isn't a hugely relevant figure. Even at £85k, it's only an extra £50/month and results in take-home pay of £4,737. In total, doing this could raise £2.85bn, adding a maximum ~£208/month to an individual's tax bill (against a current take-home pay of £5.5k/month).

Realistically, this isn't going to pay for an energy price cap freeze. But it would offset much of the benefits of the freeze for higher earners. The break-even point (assuming a single-income household with average energy use) would be at £93k. Everyone below that would be better off overall.

Freezing prices would need a number of measures to become practical. All added costs on energy bills need to be reviewed (interesting fact: Octopus put an article up on their blog supporting the removal of green levies from energy bills). An enhanced windfall tax needs to be investigated, as the current one doesn't raise anywhere near enough. And the possibility that some of the bill needs to be financed over years needs to be given serious consideration (meaning we cap prices, but face a longer period of time before some normality returns).
 

chrcoluk

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McPhee said:
You've completely failed to grasp the point; energy use from one household to the next varies considerably depending on circumstances. Heck, energy bills for users posting in this thread seem to vary from £60/month to £400/month.

I appreciate that grants to help the poorest pay for energy are effective. They ensure that money is actually spent on energy. But it's a poor solution for the general population. Take two people. One is currently paying £60/month. The other is paying £300. They're looking at bills of £108 and £540 respectively from October. How do you provide a grant that gives meaningful help to the person paying an extra £240/month without making energy cheaper than today for the person paying an extra £48/month? Capping the price of energy is a very effective way of providing proportional relief to households. And if the current cap is maintained, energy is still sufficiently expensive as to encourage households to try and save power.
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I get that, but also you may get households refusing to change their lifestyle, use more heating instead of wearing jumpers etc. Long electric showers, air conditioning that sort of thing.

My preference for a subsidised cap would be the biggest discount is on the first XX amount of units and then it gradually gets more expensive as it incentivises lower usage. I have seen some usage numbers which are insane. People on priority register would be excluded from the expensive units, and anyone with expensive to run medical equipment would be added to the register.

Looks like we not getting a cap though as both tory candidates have already ruled it out.
 

chrcoluk

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ljt said:
I'm currently £650 in credit, but with octopus it shows you a predicted forecast (taking into account the predicted price rises in oct/jan/apr) which shows even with £650 in credit and continuing paying my current £260 a month i'll owe around £2000 come next april haha! According to them in december alone i would be using £800ish elec/gas :eek: and around £650-£750in the months around that :(
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Yep their winter usage predictor is comedy level.
 

McPhee

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Uther said:
Truss is still banging on about cutting taxes as though that will fix everything.
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I'm really starting to believe the theory that she's intentionally terrible, will resign within a year, and that Boris will stand for re-election in the resulting leadership contest...
 

dowie

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McPhee said:
A cap would need to be in place for (at least) a couple of years, not a few months. It's going to take time for the Ukraine crisis to be resolved, or for Europe to wean itself off Russian gas.

Could always fund that through increasing general taxation on higher earners, going some way toward offsetting the "helping people who don't need it" problem. Riffing on an idea from yesterday, I wonder how much money could be raised if the personal allowance started to fall at £80k rather than £100k, hitting £0 at £100k instead of £125k? That would target the top 5% of earners with up to £2.5k of extra tax.
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Why should they pay for a price cap for a couple of years? I mean you're then selling energy at an artificial discount to consumers who can use as much of it as they wish and funded by higher-rate taxpayers - where is the accountability for those consumers?
 

jpaul

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ljt said:
I'm currently £650 in credit, but with octopus it shows you a predicted forecast (taking into account the predicted price rises in oct/jan/apr)
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don't need a fancy octopus winter usage predicter( or MartinLewis) ... 28p/kWh ... 53p ... 70p .. 81p unfortunately speaks for itself.

52290862244_d75b7fd141_b_d.jpg
 

chrcoluk

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McPhee said:
I'm really starting to believe the theory that she's intentionally terrible, will resign within a year, and that Boris will stand for re-election in the resulting leadership contest...
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She keeps justifying it on the basis its "the tory way", so ideology above practicality.
 

Nemiyen

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How do we know the April 23 price is going to be 81.69p? Is that based on prices this April for next year somehow or is it a guesstimate based on the way prices are going?

81.69p per KW/h will mean solar should pay for itself in nearly 5 years or less!
 

MadMossy

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Its based on the 3 months prior to the increase, so the actual price cap in April 23 will be based on Jan - Mar wholesale price, its an educated guess based on the current wholesale price trajectory.

For informational purposes only it was 240p/therm on the 1st of July, its 436p/therm today, October price cap will be based on the price from July to September. If it carries on at it's current rate it will be well over 500p/therm before the month is up and likely approaching 600p/therm by the end of September.

Europe have it worse, theirs is up 381% so far this year, ours is 273%.
 

regulus

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chrcoluk said:
I get that, but also you may get households refusing to change their lifestyle, use more heating instead of wearing jumpers etc. Long electric showers, air conditioning that sort of thing.
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I didn't read the preceding points, but this is my in-laws to a tee. They're a 2 person household, we're a 3 person household. Our bill is a third/quarter of theirs. Exact same provider. Their heating is on practically 24/7 in the winter, even on warmer days. Kettle gets filled to the brim when making a cup of tea instead of just using enough water. Hour long showers (ok, not an hour, but loooong showers). Heated towel rails gets left on 24/7/365, all electronics on. Just absolutely nonstop wasting of electricity with the surprised Pikachu faces when the bill is due.

Can't tell them any different, this is the way they've always lived. They're not interested in changing a thing.
 
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