Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[chrcoluk]

Yep, then all the Karens are up in arms about being charged for more then they're using currently because they fail to understand that building up a buffer before winter might actually be beneficial

Call me a Karen but my winter usage is same as summer (within 5%) since I rarely use heating, I dont fit in to the "profile", and Octopus in April tried to bump me to over £400 a month when I had smart meter registered usage of under £90 cost. I was around a grand in credit last winter.

But granted my usage seems uncommon.

So many people cant budget and hardly anyone understand how energy billing works. I think there is an element as well now though that some people might be realising they wont be able to afford all their bills so are clawing back the extra been taken now by the companies, knowing they simply cant afford it and need it now.

 

[jpaul]

Doesn't Martin Lewis explain to all his followers/disciples how it works, even though the DM/tabloids want maximum divisive commentary;
... and - how to avoid a grand in credit, most people can't afford that.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Beneficial for those that can't budget themselves.
But yes, bloke in work when you all what he's paying for energy he just gives his monthly DD amount hasn't a clue what the price per kWh is.

Which would be the majority across the UK, prime example being your bloke at work. This is the norm, most folk have no idea how their bill is calculated, what they pay per unit or any idea how much they use per week, per month, per year. Suggesting they go onto whole amount DD when they don't understand the basics is going to be hilarious come winter.

I'm all for it, it'll be great entertainment when they realise what they've asked for

 

[HungryHippos]

Which would be the majority across the UK, prime example being your bloke at work. This is the norm, most folk have no idea how their bill is calculated, what they pay per unit or any idea how much they use per week, per month, per year. Suggesting they go onto whole amount DD when they don't understand the basics is going to be hilarious come winter.

I'm all for it, it'll be great entertainment when they realise what they've asked for

True, we had one person in here the other day adjusting their DD to "what their neighbour paid" because that makes sense!

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Doesn't Martin Lewis explain to all his followers/disciples how it works, even though the DM/tabloids want maximum divisive commentary;
... and - how to avoid a grand in credit, most people can't afford that.

You’ll probably need over a grand in credit at the current prices, let alone Octobers to cover your winter use.

Beneficial for those that can't budget themselves.
But yes, bloke in work when you all what he's paying for energy he just gives his monthly DD amount hasn't a clue what the price per kWh is.

I disagree, I know how the bill is calculated, I know my energy usage and I know how to budget.

I could pay the whole amount every month with zero impact on my household, the money is getting paid one way or another. But that doesn’t change the fact I 100% prefer the equal amounts direct debit option as do most people who fit that description.

 

[413x]

I'm very good at budgeting but I prefer a flatter DD payment over the year than a big winter and small summer

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

You’ll probably need over a grand in credit at the current prices, let alone Octobers to cover your winter use.



I disagree, I know how the bill is calculated, I know my energy usage and I know how to budget.

I could pay the whole amount every month with zero impact on my household, the money is getting paid one way or another. But that doesn’t change the fact I 100% prefer the equal amounts direct debit option as do most people who fit that description.

I'm very good at budgeting but I prefer a flatter DD payment over the year than a big winter and small summer

I should imagine most of us are PAYE on a set wage per month so makes sense to pay the same amount out per month for our bills.
If you switch around September time it also means you go through winter in debt and slowly head back to zero balance the following September so the utility companies never end up with the credit in their accounts

 

[bigmike20vt]

I'm very good at budgeting but I prefer a flatter DD payment over the year than a big winter and small summer

I completely agree however you do need to keep an eye on em as, if I am being charitable to them and giving the benefit of the doubt, their DD adjusting algorithm can sometimes be a bit random ....

 

[HungryHippos]

You’ll probably need over a grand in credit at the current prices, let alone Octobers to cover your winter use.



I disagree, I know how the bill is calculated, I know my energy usage and I know how to budget.

I could pay the whole amount every month with zero impact on my household, the money is getting paid one way or another. But that doesn’t change the fact I 100% prefer the equal amounts direct debit option as do most people who fit that description.

Which is fine, but it will potentially give you more headaches, the algorithm that adjusts the DD amount seems chaotic, so I think if people want to stick on estimated DD then you have to expect issues currently.

Variable DD is far less stressful, it's imbalanced but it's effectively pay as you go. No messing about adjusting DD values or trying to persuade your energy companies to do it. If it's all the same affordability wise, it's definitely superior.

People on Estimated DD will likely have more pain to deal with, especially at the moment where unit rates are changing so much.

 

[jpaul]

the DD algorithm probably needs to change , and maybe they are doing that,
the women in ofgen seemed to have resigned because a similar algorithm was being used for cap setting (& maybe some element of quickly recovering cost of dead suppliers)

Price cap - Changes to the wholesale methodology - Distributional impacts

This report provides a more detailed description of the distributional impacts outlined in our statutory consultation covering our proposed changes to the price cap.

www.ofgem.gov.uk

3.1. As defined in Chapter 1, backwardation costs arise from the difference in energy prices between winter and summer. These costs occur when the forward period for the price suppliers can charge is different to the forward period a nominal supplier would use for its hedging. When the market is in backwardation, the forward prices in the later six months are lower than in the first six (the actual cap period). It brings the cap level below the cost to suppliers of purchasing that energy for customers (for that cap period). 3.2. In a stable market, backwardation costs net out against its reciprocal, contango. However, the current market volatility means that may no longer hold true. Given backwardation is a cost that suppliers incur to serve their customers, we propose to include it in the wholesale methodology. As described in further details in the statutory consultation, we propose to calculate backwardation costs using an ex-ante approach, meaning that suppliers can start to recover the cost at the time they incur it rather than waiting for an allowance after the fact.

 

[benjii]

I have no idea where Shell get there numbers from for their flat DD. Am I right in saying none of them are estimating your bill based on the upcoming price hike as they don't know how much they can raise it yet?

 

[Puzzled]

How far in debt can you go with DD before they start moaning to put it up? Using the octopus crystal ball feature I can pay significantly more but still go quite a bit in debt over winter before it being paid off next summer.

To stop the balance going negative it needs scarily high payments starting now. I have been over paying all year but that target balance is based on April's price rise.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Which is fine, but it will potentially give you more headaches, the algorithm that adjusts the DD amount seems chaotic, so I think if people want to stick on estimated DD then you have to expect issues currently.

Variable DD is far less stressful, it's imbalanced but it's effectively pay as you go. No messing about adjusting DD values or trying to persuade your energy companies to do it. If it's all the same affordability wise, it's definitely superior.

People on Estimated DD will likely have more pain to deal with, especially at the moment where unit rates are changing so much.

If you get poor service (from any company, not specifically utility suppliers) then take your business elsewhere, contrary to popular opinion they aren't all the same. I work hard for my money (well, I turn up on time and pretend to be busy ) so I'm choosy with who gets it.

There's good reason why I'll never be a British gas, Scottish power or BT customer ever again, Plusnet and octopus on the other hand seem to understand what customer service entails.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I can’t say I have ever had issues with chaotic direct debit amounts. It’s probably because I know how much energy I use annually so I am able to give them the correct estimates when switching supplier.

Variable DD isn’t ‘far less stressful’. My gas usage in winter peaks at >5x that of summer. That’s a huge amount of money going out at a time of year that is already rather expensive. That’s stressful on it’s own, particularly as most people are not sat on thousands in their bank accounts to buffer the peak spending period.

The amount of credit you’ll need to cover winter usage will balloon as most of your gas usage will come in that 4 month period. Unfortunately that is the reality of the situation.

At the October prices, having at least grand set aside to cover winter is going to be business as usual for the vast majority of people.

If you have solar, the disparity between winter and summer will be even more.

 

[HungryHippos]

If you get poor service (from any company, not specifically utility suppliers) then take your business elsewhere, contrary to popular opinion they aren't all the same. I work hard for my money (well, I turn up on time and pretend to be busy ) so I'm choosy with who gets it.

There's good reason why I'll never be a British gas, Scottish power or BT customer ever again, Plusnet and octopus on the other hand seem to understand what customer service entails.

Octopus aren't accepting new customers unless you go onto a fixed tariff with them. Sometimes it's not as simple as you think!

I had the opposite experience with BT/Plusnet, Plusnet double billed me for my line rental, and then couldn't refund me for months. BT been great all the time!

 

[413x]

I can’t say I have ever had issues with chaotic direct debit amounts. It’s probably because I know how much energy I use annually so I am able to give them the correct estimates when switching supplier.

Variable DD isn’t ‘far less stressful’. My gas usage in winter peaks at >5x that of summer. That’s a huge amount of money going out at a time of year that is already rather expensive. That’s stressful on it’s own, particularly as most people are not sat on thousands in their bank accounts to ride out the peak period.

The amount of credit you’ll need to cover winter usage will balloon as most of your gas usage will come in that 4 month period. Unfortunately that is the reality of the situation.

At the October prices, having at least grand set aside to cover winter is going to be business as usual for the vast majority of people. It used to be a £200ish.

If you have solar, the disparity between winter and summer will be even more.

I'm on cheap fix but even my 600 credit is predicted to hit 0 by winters end paying 60 a month.
(They haven't given it back, despite saying they would. So my DD isn't moving!)

Soon as heating goes on my summer bill more than doubles over the 4 or 5 winter months

 

[HungryHippos]

I can’t say I have ever had issues with chaotic direct debit amounts. It’s probably because I know how much energy I use annually so I am able to give them the correct estimates when switching supplier.

Common complaint seems to be DD estimates arbitrarily being changed, and people complaining that they struggle to set them to what they think they should be paying.

It's extremely common in this thread.

Variable DD isn’t ‘far less stressful’. My gas usage in winter peaks at >5x that of summer. That’s a huge amount of money going out at a time of year that is already rather expensive. That’s stressful on it’s own, particularly as most people are not sat on thousands in their bank accounts to ride out the peak period.

Note I said if it makes no difference to you financially, if you have enough savings to absorb the ups and downs yourself, it's way better than estimated DD.

Variable DD is not good for people that can't self fund the more expensive months, or lack the discipline to put enough aside in the warmer months.

 

[Robi]

I'm with Outfox the Market and currently in £300 credit. Worth asking for the credit back and then moving supplier for fear of them going under?

 

[bigmike20vt]

If you have solar, the disparity between winter and summer will be even more.

indeed my net monthly leccy and gas bill combined this month and the last 2 has been around £15 total thanks to solar.

already I am starting to see my daily export numbers dropping. winter will be a reality check, thankfully, whilst I did dial my payments back a bit from my automated DD I still have built a fair bit of credit.

I am also on a good deal due to blind luck and good timing on my fixed billing

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Octopus aren't accepting new customers unless you go onto a fixed tariff with them. Sometimes it's not as simple as you think!

I had the opposite experience with BT/Plusnet, Plusnet double billed me for my line rental, and then couldn't refund me for months. BT been great all the time!

Sadly yes in the current market it's not always possible.

Plusnet have made a few mistakes over the years, I've been a customer for at least a decade, but they've always been sorted out with a single phonecall or message. They made a **** up with my new contract a couple of months ago, agreed a new two year deal and something had gone wrong when it was setup so they billed me more then twice what they should have one phone call sorted it and a free month added to my account too. I don't mind mistakes as long as they're dealt with promptly.
Scottish power took the best part of a year to resolve a single issue that they made worse a couple of times whilst trying to sort it, and on more then one occasion the agent I was speaking to didn't understand the problem and refused to escalate it, even though there was a huge call log about the issue on my account. Life's too short to be dealing with companies like this.