Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[HungryHippos]

I'm with Outfox the Market and currently in £300 credit. Worth asking for the credit back and then moving supplier for fear of them going under?

Your balance will always be protected. Even if you shift supplier by default due to last one crashing.

Balance will carry over to new one, so I wouldn't worry overly about it.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I'm with Outfox the Market and currently in £300 credit. Worth asking for the credit back and then moving supplier for fear of them going under?

your money has been protected when all the other companies went under so I imagine you will be fine. that said regardless of that if it were me and I didn't trust my supplier to stay in business I would be tempted to keep my account credit far lower (but if you are close to the bone but that money to 1 side and don't spend it)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Common complaint seems to be DD estimates arbitrarily being changed, and people complaining that they struggle to set them to what they think they should be paying.

It's extremely common in this thread.

I don’t disagree that the comments exist, but I also doubt many of them have sat there with a spreadsheet and actually worked out what it should be.

Their DDs are probably being changed because they are using more energy than the DD will cover. The DD will be going up to make up the arrears against their profiles usage. Sometimes that wrong, I accept that but it’s not wrong to the extent that the amount of noise that it’s generating. I refer back to my previous point in the paragraph above about most people not sitting down and working it out (E.g. most have no idea what their bill should actually be).

I'm with Outfox the Market and currently in £300 credit. Worth asking for the credit back and then moving supplier for fear of them going under?

No, your credit is safe. If you move you’ll end up on an expensive fix.

It’s unlikely anyone else will go bust going forward, those that are left survived the initial shock and with the price cap being done every 3 months instead of 6, the risk is greatly reduced. OFGEM are actively protecting suppliers at the moment.

 

[HungryHippos]

Sadly yes in the current market it's not always possible.

Plusnet have made a few mistakes over the years, I've been a customer for at least a decade, but they've always been sorted out with a single phonecall or message. They made a **** up with my new contact a couple of months ago, agreed a new two year deal and something has gone wrong when it was setup so they billed me more then twice what they should have one phone call sorted it and a free month added to my account too. I don't mind mistakes as long as they're dealt with promptly.
Scottish power took the best part of a year to resolve a single issue that they made worse a couple of times whilst trying to sort it and on more then one occasion the agent I was speaking to didn't understand the problem and refused to escalate it even though there was a huge call log about the issue on my account. Life's too short to be dealing with companies like this.

My experience with Plusnet was that they couldn't solve my problem promptly at all, I had to escalate a complaint in the end, it did get solved after that, but start to finish was about 3 months to refund my double billed line rental.

Worst one ever was Linden Homes though, snags open on new build house for over two years. Constant chasing and broken promises to solve issues.

 

[HungryHippos]

but I also doubt many of them have sat there with a spreadsheet and actually worked out what it should be

I think this is very true, people don't understand the bills, and don't have a handle on what they use or where it's used, or how much it costs to run things.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I think it's important that everyone has a rough idea of how much electric/gas their house uses, which you can get by taking meter readings manually daily/weekly for a bit. Winter will see higher gas usage on CH if you have it, but electric use should be fairly static.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I have a question .. it is sort of political but don't want this to be a left Vs right argument but I am genuinely confused.
the logic made my many pro privatisation are that private companies are much better organised and that nationalised companies simply don't work well and end up costing us heaps when they are run badly

with that in mind 12 months ago maybe people would be thinking thank goodness energy is not nationalised as there are some big big costs coming which we would be on the hook for if nationalised.

however ....... us the tax payer intimately is still footing the bill for poor business decisions and some back luck admittedly and big bosses and share holders still seem to be ok.

so what on earth even in an ideal scenario is the advantage of public utilities being privatised if we have to pay any short falls anyway as we can't be without them?

it seems to me if nationalised we (government) gets the hay whilst the sun shines but carried the can when it goes south

but privatised we still get all the down sides when things go badly but shareholders and big bosses get all the money in the fat times.

It looks to me that if this has shown anything it is that the argument that privatised companies are well run and nationalised not is incorrect.

what am I missing ?

 

[Allnamestaken]

Decades of MOSTLY Tory fisting of the social and other sectors have degraded this country to the state it is. The attempt to privatize everything in one way or another.

Its taken decades to get here but we are here now and suffering the results.

Like you said we mostly absorb the cost/downsides of privatized businesses in the energy sector when they fail in someway.
Its utterly depressing.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I think this is very true, people don't understand the bills, and don't have a handle on what they use or where it's used, or how much it costs to run things.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I think it's important that everyone has a rough idea of how much electric/gas their house uses, which you can get by taking meter readings manually daily/weekly for a bit. Winter will see higher gas usage on CH if you have it, but electric use should be fairly static.

I’ve got a spreadsheet with all my energy usage data and costs going back 8 years or something silly. I know exactly how much I use and how it’s split over the seasons.

I don’t take manual meter readings as often as you suggest (no need IMO) but I do take them every month or two.

I’ve had my EV for 8 months which makes it a little harder to project forward at the moment but that is getting easier as each month passes. The charge point I have measures it’s energy consumption so can split the readings between the car and the house which is ideal for running the numbers on time of use tariffs.

 

[413x]

I have a question .. it is sort of political but don't want this to be a left Vs right argument but I am genuinely confused.
the logic made my many pro privatisation are that private companies are much better organised and that nationalised companies simply don't work well and end up costing us heaps when they are run badly

with that in mind 12 months ago maybe people would be thinking thank goodness energy is not nationalised as there are some big big costs coming which we would be on the hook for if nationalised.

however ....... us the tax payer intimately is still footing the bill for poor business decisions and some back luck admittedly and big bosses and share holders still seem to be ok.

so what on earth even in an ideal scenario is the advantage of public utilities being privatised if we have to pay any short falls anyway as we can't be without them?

it seems to me if nationalised we (government) gets the hay whilst the sun shines but carried the can when it goes south

but privatised we still get all the down sides when things go badly but shareholders and big bosses get all the money in the fat times.

what am I missing ?

I've heard that companies just didn't progress when public. They kind of didn't invest. Obviously I wasn't around in those days but that's what I've heard.

If energy was operated like water it wouldn't be so bad (private company's but very strict profit rules, ofwat is much more potent than Ofgem) .


But you'd need BP etc to be public the energy suppliers? That isn't where the profits are. That wouldn't save anything.

 

[robj20]

I'm very good at budgeting but I prefer a flatter DD payment over the year than a big winter and small summer

I prefer earning interest on my money than giving it to an energy supplier to earn money on. I have an account I pay all my bills from that earns interest, I pay about the same into it each month ago kind of works the same way most are used to, except I get the interest not Octopus. To me that's what makes sense not throwing away free money.

 

[Sinbad2000]

I've heard that companies just didn't progress when public. They kind of didn't invest. Obviously I wasn't around in those days but that's what I've heard.

If energy was operated like water it wouldn't be so bad (private company's but very strict profit rules, ofwat is much more potent than Ofgem) .


But you'd need BP etc to be public the energy suppliers? That isn't where the profits are. That wouldn't save anything.

/looks at the state of southern water

 

[Haggisman]

Which is fine, but it will potentially give you more headaches, the algorithm that adjusts the DD amount seems chaotic, so I think if people want to stick on estimated DD then you have to expect issues currently.

The problem is ESTIMATED direct debits. I know* my annual usage, so I know what it's going to cost me. Hence why despite being currently in credit by £300, I've just manually increased my DD by £100/month.

Variable DD is far less stressful, it's imbalanced but it's effectively pay as you go. No messing about adjusting DD values or trying to persuade your energy companies to do it. If it's all the same affordability wise, it's definitely superior.

People on Estimated DD will likely have more pain to deal with, especially at the moment where unit rates are changing so much.

As I've said many times, most people can't (or rather can't be bothered to) plan a month or 2 in the future. They see a big credit balance in their account and think they're paying too much. These same people are going to be ****** when they get their first winter bill and it's 4x more than the "too high" direct debit they complained about paying.

Yes there will be the sensible ones who do realise this and have put the money aside, but I would put money on them being in the minority.

I'm not sure how a variable DD is less stressful? You're very much exaggerating how much "messing about" it takes to log into your account and enter the DD amount you want to pay.



* or rather I know my annual usage and can extrapolate from that based on any changes I make.

 

[LabR@t]

I prefer earning interest on my money than giving it to an energy supplier to earn money on. I have an account I pay all my bills from that earns interest, I pay about the same into it each month ago kind of works the same way most are used to, except I get the interest not Octopus. To me that's what makes sense not throwing away free money.

Ovo gives gives you 5% back. Better than the bank

 

[413x]

I prefer earning interest on my money than giving it to an energy supplier to earn money on. I have an account I pay all my bills from that earns interest, I pay about the same into it each month ago kind of works the same way most are used to, except I get the interest not Octopus. To me that's what makes sense not throwing away free money.

I'm not really worried about interest on a few hundred. It's probably a few pounds a year.

Ideally it wouldn't have got to 600.but usually happy to keep 200 in

 

[touch]

I prefer earning interest on my money than giving it to an energy supplier to earn money on. I have an account I pay all my bills from that earns interest, I pay about the same into it each month ago kind of works the same way most are used to, except I get the interest not Octopus. To me that's what makes sense not throwing away free money.

So it's only beneficial to switch to usage-based billing in the run up to summer? If you switch to actual usage DD billing now you'll end up paying more over winter than flat-rate DDs would have been and lose out on the interest.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I prefer earning interest on my money than giving it to an energy supplier to earn money on. I have an account I pay all my bills from that earns interest, I pay about the same into it each month ago kind of works the same way most are used to, except I get the interest not Octopus. To me that's what makes sense not throwing away free money.

I balance mine so that whilst I am in credit some of the time I am in arrears some of it too so over all it is about fair. at the start of march this year my account was around -£160. it is now around +300...... I suspect it will be negative a bit more than -160 if we have a cold winter which some are predicting so as much as I lose a little in one hand I gain in the other

also my Barclays currant account interest is pitiful I really need to sit down and sort out my finances. I used to be so on the ball to the nearest £10 always swapping my isa etc but since having a lad it has all gone to crud. I am not complaining I am grateful to have some rainy day savings and no dents of note but with inflations as it is I need to improve

 

[413x]

I balance mine so that whilst I am in credit some of the time I am in arrears some of it too so over all it is about fair. at the start of march this year my account was around -£160. it is now around +300...... I suspect it will be negative a bit more than -160 if we have a cold winter which some are predicting so as much as I lose a little in one hand I gain in the other

also my Barclays currant account interest is pitiful I really need to sit down and sort out my finances. I used to be so on the ball to the nearest £10 always swapping my isa etc but since having a lad it has all gone to crud. I am not complaining I am grateful to have some rainy day savings and no dents of note but with inflations as it is I need to improve

At some point micro managing isn't worth the time. (depending on salary etc)

 

[HungryHippos]

I don’t take manual meter readings as often as you suggest (no need IMO) but I do take them every month or two.

To be clear, I was mainly suggesting frequent (daily/weekly) for people who have no idea how much they are using right now. Once you know, then monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly is fine.

I'm not sure how a variable DD is less stressful? You're very much exaggerating how much "messing about" it takes to log into your account and enter the DD amount you want to pay.

I've seen people raging in here due to getting into DD wars with their supplier, having to keep contacting them to barter to change the values, being unable to adjust their DD to what they want to pay, cancelling DD so they can set it up again with the figures they want to pay etc.

That all sounds far more stressful to me than just using variable DD and paying for what you consume. If you are in a financial position to be able to pay variable amounts that is.

I do appreciate that not everyone can do this, but if you can, it doesn't make sense not to.

So it's only beneficial to switch to usage-based billing in the run up to summer? If you switch to actual usage DD billing now you'll end up paying more over winter than flat-rate DDs would have been and lose out on the interest.

I don't know about you, but the tiny levels of interest my bank pays, this isn't really a concern one way or another.

I don't like having a huge debt or credit with the supplier, usage based has ups and downs, but you can see what your bill is after you put your meter readings in, and then you get charged so you can see what you're actually using as you go.

 

[ljt]

I prefer a "smoothed" DD payment. Especially with the predicted prise rises.

Just going by octopus predicted costs for myself is showing (based on an estimate of the same sort of useage I had last year) the "used" gas/elec costs for me are;

Oct: £470
Nov: £600
Dec: £730
Jan: £900
Feb: £800
Mar: £750

I couldn't afford 4 bills in a row at the predicted costs for Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar but if it's evened out over 12 months, then at least it makes it more managable.

 

[HungryHippos]

I prefer a "smoothed" DD payment. Especially with the predicted prise rises.

Just going by octopus predicted costs for myself is showing (based on an estimate of the same sort of useage I had last year) the "used" gas/elec costs for me are;

Oct: £470
Nov: £600
Dec: £730
Jan: £900
Feb: £800
Mar: £750

I couldn't afford 4 bills in a row at the predicted costs for Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar but if it's evened out over 12 months, then at least it makes it more managable.

Even at the new rates predicted after October, those sound insane.

What are you actually using here? it seems high to me.