Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

I think unless something changes the tories are done for, the public tending to blame all ills on the current government

The only remote hope is COL is solved and people are starting to recover come the next election.

I suspect Labour will be having a civil war of their own soon, with rising public sentiment towards nationalisation I suspect they will fall victim to a momentum assumption that the whole country will support that and as such be trying to force the next labour manifesto to be more extreme than JCs
 
Haggisman said:
This logic applies fine for discretionary/luxury purchases which are easily available. When you're talking about essentials which are in short supply, it doesn't really matter whether half your customers can't afford your product, because the other half will be happy to outbid each other in order to secure supply. This is what people seem to be failing to grasp; there is a shortage of supply, which is why we can't (as a country) just turn round to the producers and say "we're not paying that much" - because their response will be "that's fine, we'll sell it to someone else".



Even if the economics of that somehow worked out, I'm not sure if that's actually possible without breaking the laws of thermodynamics? It takes a certain amount of energy to heat a certain amount of water by a certain temperature, a different kettle isn't going to change that. Unless your old kettle is so badly insulated that it is losing a significant amount of heat in the minute or so it takes to boil, or the new one is a heat pump kettle (do they even exist? :p), then the savings are going to be in the fractions of a penny surely?
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Ours is currently "broken"
Its odd but the filter part decayed and fell to bits. Now the kettle is at boiling for considerably longer, I think as the steam is getting out easier.
I dont think its worth buying a new one, we are talking like an extra 5 seconds or so that its sat at boiling but you could see how that detection of boiling could vary from model to model.

DONT whatever you do buy an insulated kettle if its anything like my experience.
I bought one and it was a nightmare it wouldn't allow you to boil a hot kettle, but it was badly flawed (no idea where the sensor was). If you boiled the kettle, tipped it out and after filling with cold tried to reboil it, it was insistent that the water was hot and would not switch on.
Drove the other half mental so in the end it got binned. It used to take around 5 minutes of being filled with cold water after being previously boiled to decide the water was cold.
 
Haggisman said:
This logic applies fine for discretionary/luxury purchases which are easily available. When you're talking about essentials which are in short supply, it doesn't really matter whether half your customers can't afford your product, because the other half will be happy to outbid each other in order to secure supply. This is what people seem to be failing to grasp; there is a shortage of supply, which is why we can't (as a country) just turn round to the producers and say "we're not paying that much" - because their response will be "that's fine, we'll sell it to someone else".



Even if the economics of that somehow worked out, I'm not sure if that's actually possible without breaking the laws of thermodynamics? It takes a certain amount of energy to heat a certain amount of water by a certain temperature, a different kettle isn't going to change that. Unless your old kettle is so badly insulated that it is losing a significant amount of heat in the minute or so it takes to boil, or the new one is a heat pump kettle (do they even exist? :p), then the savings are going to be in the fractions of a penny surely?
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This seems to be a very common theme in the general public.

Seeing the UK as an island with no other competitors.

"if we don't pay they will have to Lower price as they wouldn't sell anything"

Is something I read/hear a lot. Especially the don't pay UK movement. Seeming to think that our resources only come to us.

I've even read "if only one supplier lowered their prices they'd get all the customers and the others would have to follow"

ajoHObml.jpg
 
Troop said:
Here is another offering from Octopus, not seen it before.

If it is an Eco 7 tariff as it states, can't see you needing an EV to get on it.
Can't find any other info on it.

ppKM8J7.jpg
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You need an EV to get on it. And more than that: "Our Octopus Go Green Tariff is designed exclusively for Volkwagen, Audi, SEAT, Skoda or Cupra EV drivers"

octopus.energy

Octopus Energy

Octopus customers pay less: Cheaper than price-cap prices, rewards for using less when the grid is stressed, and smart tariff savings for your home, car or battery
octopus.energy octopus.energy
 
Haggisman said:
This logic applies fine for discretionary/luxury purchases which are easily available. When you're talking about essentials which are in short supply, it doesn't really matter whether half your customers can't afford your product, because the other half will be happy to outbid each other in order to secure supply. This is what people seem to be failing to grasp; there is a shortage of supply, which is why we can't (as a country) just turn round to the producers and say "we're not paying that much" - because their response will be "that's fine, we'll sell it to someone else".
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We keep hearing about this "shortage of supply" and how it's all to blame for this, but unless I have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of electricity, when you do not have enough supply to meet demand the power goes out.

This has NOT been happening, AT ALL. There is a perceived shortage is potential supply, that is it. If we actually had a shortage of supply vs demand, we or other parts of Europe would be suffering brown-outs and rolling black-outs.
So it would seem it is in fact entirely possible for them to lower their profit margin in order to maintain the larger customer base. The difference being, they are choosing not to.
 
Devilman said:
We keep hearing about this "shortage of supply" and how it's all to blame for this, but unless I have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of electricity, when you do not have enough supply to meet demand the power goes out.

This has NOT been happening, AT ALL. There is a perceived shortage is potential supply, that is it. If we actually had a shortage of supply vs demand, we or other parts of Europe would be suffering brown-outs and rolling black-outs.
So it would seem it is in fact entirely possible for them to lower their profit margin in order to maintain the larger customer base. The difference being, they are choosing not to.
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Yes. It is more of a shortage of suppliers meaning the ones still selling can make their own price up and then get scared when the EU starts to take action.
 
Devilman said:
We keep hearing about this "shortage of supply" and how it's all to blame for this, but unless I have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of electricity, when you do not have enough supply to meet demand the power goes out.

This has NOT been happening, AT ALL. There is a perceived shortage is potential supply, that is it. If we actually had a shortage of supply vs demand, we or other parts of Europe would be suffering brown-outs and rolling black-outs.
So it would seem it is in fact entirely possible for them to lower their profit margin in order to maintain the larger customer base. The difference being, they are choosing not to.
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Of course. Its maximising profits. I'm not sure why people seem to think the energy sector is a charity?

Why would Norway give us gas at under market rate?
It wouldn't.

If your neighbour dave has lost his job you don't give him some of your money. No matter how rich or poor you are.
 
413x said:
Of course. Its maximising profits. I'm not sure why people seem to think the energy sector is a charity?

Why would Norway give us gas at under market rate?
It wouldn't.

If your neighbour dave has lost his job you don't give him some of your money. No matter how rich or poor you are.
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Why do people always have to take things to extremes?

Why do you presume it has to be charity and give everything away for free? There is a huge area between "maximize profits at the cost of lives" and "make 0 profit, do everything as a charity"

Why do they need to *maximize* profits in a period of energy crisis where they could easily give up a few % of their total profit and help millions out of energy poverty?

With regard to Norway gas... Have you actually looked at our grid generation? Last night almost 75% of our generation was via gas, and we were exporting almost 25% of that.. We were literally burning far more gas than we needed, only to export it to other countries.
 
Devilman said:
Why do people always have to take things to extremes?

Why do you presume it has to be charity and give everything away for free? There is a huge area between "maximize profits at the cost of lives" and "make 0 profit, do everything as a charity"

Why do they need to *maximize* profits in a period of energy crisis where they could easily give up a few % of their total profit and help millions out of energy poverty?

With regard to Norway gas... Have you actually looked at our grid generation? Last night almost 75% of our generation was via gas, and we were exporting almost 25% of that.. We were literally burning far more gas than we needed, only to export it to other countries.
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Because why wouldn't it? Pretty much every other company does the same? Most people do in their own lives. They look after themselves.

These are greedy people. You don't get to the board of a energy Corp being nice.

Most of these people are ********
 
413x said:
Most of these people are ********
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I dont agree with that at all, its purely an emotional statement and not based on any reality. People are now not nice because they are not changing the way the entire market works based on one event? As I said, you need government controls if you want artificial pricing.
 
Tony Edwards said:
I meant only recognisable to people with an agenda. Like both of you. Normal people either wouldnt recognise them or arent that bothered.
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So you agree that Labour have no 'A list' MP's to get out on the campaign trail?

All it will take is for a video of Starmer struggling to eat a bacon sandwich and it will be all over.
 
Devilman said:
We keep hearing about this "shortage of supply" and how it's all to blame for this, but unless I have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of electricity, when you do not have enough supply to meet demand the power goes out.

This has NOT been happening, AT ALL. There is a perceived shortage is potential supply, that is it. If we actually had a shortage of supply vs demand, we or other parts of Europe would be suffering brown-outs and rolling black-outs.
So it would seem it is in fact entirely possible for them to lower their profit margin in order to maintain the larger customer base. The difference being, they are choosing not to.
Click to expand...

There 100% IS a shortage of supply, of gas, in order to make the electricity.
Europe during these months is normally stocking up and normally Russia is exporting gas to them.

Russia isn't exporting anywhere near as much as normal so there is a shortage of available supply from elsewhere.

We are actually cooperating with the other European nations, we have good LNG expansion facilities but naff all storage, they are the opposite.

People have to get over its "our" energy, its not, its a private companies energy and they can do what they like with it, which is virtually always sell to someone willing to pay for it.
Right now with the shortage people are asking for future deliveries that companies cannot fulfil, so people try harder to find it, look slightly further ahead, willing to sign longer contracts etc its just how it works
If you don't like those rules you need a government who is going to not allow the free market to take place.
 
200sols said:
I dont agree with that at all, its purely an emotional statement and not based on any reality. People are now not nice because they are not changing the way the entire market works based on one event? As I said, you need government controls if you want artificial pricing.
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I dunno. When companies make massive profits they could sell at a discount. I know that's pie in the sky type of thinking. But they could.

It would have to be direct so no middle man can effectively scalp it. But it could happen.


Would never expect it though. When I sell stuff I try to make the most I can. I don't give concessions because someone is poor
 
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