Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

RaXor77 said:
I can see what you meant when you previously said the USA were going to break the EU
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US are laughing. When the going gets tough, each country looks out for itself. Unfortunately for the UK and EU, both liberal socialist areas, they can no longer borrow on the US, Russia and China. Truss has all but initiated a "socialise the losses" system with her brain-dead energy scheme, but not at all surprising in the socialist paradise of GB.

The US has lined everything up perfectly. Raising rates is much easier there than in either the UK or EU. They know neither the UK and EU can match, so guess who gets the goods? By the US persuading the EU to get involved in a war between Russia and the Ukrainian, that was also a master stroke.

Now then, it looks like Canada is in-line with the Fed as they've just raised rates again by 0.75%, taking the base rate to 3.25%. There's plenty more to come too. North America is going to be a great region over the coming 20 years. Mexico will too shape up well.
 
purplesky said:
US are laughing. When the going gets tough, each country looks out for itself. Unfortunately for the UK and EU, both liberal socialist areas, they can no longer borrow on the US, Russia and China. Truss has all but initiated a "socialise the losses" system with her brain-dead energy scheme, but not at all surprising in the socialist paradise of GB. [..]
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The UK energy system is specifically designed to force as many people as possible to pay inflated prices in order to line the pockets of as few people as possible (mostly outside the UK, thus ensuring the UK haemorrhages money in the service of global capitalism). For you to call that socialist is beyond ridiculous.

Truss has put loans in place so that the existing system can continue to function. Farming requires some degree of attention to the things being farmed. Whether they're crops, animals or people. But we'll have to pay those loans back.
 
Angilion said:
The UK energy system is specifically designed to force as many people as possible to pay inflated prices in order to line the pockets of as few people as possible (mostly outside the UK, thus ensuring the UK haemorrhages money in the service of global capitalism). For you to call that socialist is beyond ridiculous.

Truss has put loans in place so that the existing system can continue to function. Farming requires some degree of attention to the things being farmed. Whether they're crops, animals or people. But we'll have to pay those loans back.
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The official definition of a socialism changed many years ago. The UK is still a socialist state masquerading as capitalist.

But anyway, let's continue to ensure people keep on paying those excessive standing charges to pay out for those bust "capitalist" energy firms.
 
chrcoluk said:
Seems to have been dropping since Germany announced it almost filled its reserves, I speculated recently we been paying more during summer due to Europe filling its storage.

Looking at the 5y graph though its still clearly very high and extremely volatile, look how smooth things were in early 2021 and older. So energy remains very insecure.

UK Natural Gas - Price - Chart - Historical Data - News

UK Gas increased 9.16 GBp/Thm or 11.35% since the beginning of 2024, according to trading on a contract for difference (CFD) that tracks the benchmark market for this commodity. UK Natural Gas - values, historical data, forecasts and news - updated on September of 2024.
tradingeconomics.com tradingeconomics.com
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Indeed, prices are still ~7x normal and a domestic energy bill cap at £2,500 is nearly 3x normal so still plenty of pain around for everyone

But not "22% inflation end of Western economies" pain as some feared
 
Alex_6n2 said:
Indeed, prices are still ~7x normal and a domestic energy bill cap at £2,500 is nearly 3x normal so still plenty of pain around for everyone

But not "22% inflation end of Western economies" pain as some feared
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Remember to factor in a falling GBP. The problem of high energy costs has just moved the problem elsewhere.
 
Hang on...

Is the maths right? 60 million people in the UK, £2.85 billion to renationalise...

Pay £3000 in fuel costs this winter or £50 per person to renationalise UK energy?

Hmmmm, what to do.... what to do....
 
LCG-xyz said:
Hang on...

Is the maths right? 60 million people in the UK, £2.85 billion to renationalise...

Pay £3000 in fuel costs this winter or £50 per person to renationalise UK energy?

Hmmmm, what to do.... what to do....
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Closer to 70m if I recall correctly, reducing that £50 every so slightly more :P
 
Angilion said:
I've never had a meter reader from Octopus. I don't think they have them. They just take my word for the readings.
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They have checked me once, most if not all energy suppliers use 3rd parties to do meter checks.

If you supply accurate readings that make sence they won't need to check.
 
LCG-xyz said:
Hang on...

Is the maths right? 60 million people in the UK, £2.85 billion to renationalise...

Pay £3000 in fuel costs this winter or £50 per person to renationalise UK energy?

Hmmmm, what to do.... what to do....
Click to expand...

You figures are completely wrong by an order of magnitude to begin with.

And renationalising all UK energy producers and selling their production at breakeven wouldn't cover our energy usage, so we would still have to buy on the open market which is the reason we are paying more.

Most the UK energy producers profits are made from over sea production and sales anyway.
 
Its getting crazy, am old and decrepit now at 63 and very, very physically disabled before my time but still of sound mind I hope :)

Submitted my monthly August readings to Octopus whom despite name are well regarded as a UK Energy company and still cant get my usage down, really made a conscious effort to reduce my electricity usage since July and becoming aware of this impending mess.
This new bill is still sky high and before new caps come in that is by far the highest, my gas seems almost affordable in comparison, but even using gas for my boiler uses electricity, you cant win :( My weekly Asda usual weekly shop rises every week now and its beyond crazy , have already sacrificed my BBC license, TV access and now on basic Sky broadband ,,, i cant lose anymore than that ... what else can I sacrifice to the Gods of Greed Profit and Energy? when will it all stop?

What are we going to do? Living alone and elderly with nobody to lean on I'm honestly sick with worry and fear just now.

Hope its a mild Winter? its almost upon us I fear.

Hard times ahead, take care all.
 
LCG-xyz said:
Hang on...

Is the maths right? 60 million people in the UK, £2.85 billion to renationalise...

Pay £3000 in fuel costs this winter or £50 per person to renationalise UK energy?

Hmmmm, what to do.... what to do....
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£2.8bn wouldn’t even get you the reception desk at BP.

Market caps

- Shell £170bn
- BP £80bn
- SSE £8bn
- Centrica £6bn

So about £270bn to obtain them, plus running costs and ongoing investment (Shell invests £10bn per year). Nice try though :p

The majority of people calling for Nationalisation don’t understand how the energy system works, or even what to nationalise. It’s just a buzz word they read on the DailyMail !!
 
SDK^ said:
£2.8bn wouldn’t even get you the reception desk at BP.

Market caps

- Shell £170bn
- BP £80bn
- SSE £8bn
- Centrica £6bn

So about £270bn to obtain them, plus running costs and ongoing investment (Shell invests £10bn per year). Nice try though :p

The majority of people calling for Nationalisation don’t understand how the energy system works, or even what to nationalise. It’s just a buzz word they read on the DailyMail !!
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So roughly the profits they made in Q1 this year, with the whole rest of the year to cream it in? Also.. Define "investment". What exactly are they "investing" in?
If you're talking about continued oil / gas exploration and drilling - That is a fundamental part of their business model and can in NO WAY be seen or represented as "investment".
If they did not do it, their wells would run dry, they would run out of product and cease to turn a profit. You make it sound like they're giving away £10bn every year for the betterment of humanity.

The majority of people calling for Nationalization may not fully understand how the current energy system works, but what they DO understand (and a lot of them remember) is that we didn't have this kind of obscene profiteering and greed going on when it was nationalized as we are currently witnessing by "the free market economy".
 
Devilman said:
So roughly the profits they made in Q1 this year, with the whole rest of the year to cream it in? Also.. Define "investment". What exactly are they "investing" in?
If you're talking about continued oil / gas exploration and drilling - That is a fundamental part of their business model and can in NO WAY be seen or represented as "investment".
If they did not do it, their wells would run dry, they would run out of product and cease to turn a profit. You make it sound like they're giving away £10bn every year for the betterment of humanity.

The majority of people calling for Nationalization may not fully understand how the current energy system works, but what they DO understand (and a lot of them remember) is that we didn't have this kind of obscene profiteering and greed going on when it was nationalized as we are currently witnessing by "the free market economy".
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They also see in countries like France that have effective nationalisation that energy increases were capped at 4%.

The problem is none of these essential services like rail, energy, water should have ever been privatized. It is much more expensive to undo that mess
 
How come we have so many Armchair Energy experts here who google to debate their friends statements, Ad_Infinitum, over and and over again.

We all know its a big problem, but surely instead of winning a futile argument that nobody here is ever going to succeed to ... a ground Dog Day thing, cant we stray away from this constant bickering and one up man ship? during this very important UK energy crisis, or is it all about I'm right and he is wrong Ego's here.

Is that the way of it?
 
One 48 said:
Submitted my monthly August readings to Octopus whom despite name are well regarded as a UK Energy company and still cant get my usage down, really made a conscious effort to reduce my electricity usage since July and becoming aware of this impending mess.
This new bill is still sky high and before new caps come in that is by far the highest, my gas seems almost affordable in comparison, but even using gas for my boiler uses electricity, you cant win :( My weekly Asda usual weekly shop rises every week now and its beyond crazy , have already sacrificed my BBC license, TV access and now on basic Sky broadband ,,, i cant lose anymore than that ... what else can I sacrifice to the Gods of Greed Profit and Energy? when will it all stop?
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Everyone has a different definition of sky high.

How much gas and electric are you actually using on a daily basis? not £ spent, but kwh/units.
 
Sounds like we’re finally going to use our own resources again. About time, we’re sat on a bucket load of everything we need.

Hoping there’s some clarity today on those already fixed at higher than the proposed cap.
 
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