Energy Suppliers

MissChief said:
The way the adverts talk about a smart meter saving you hundreds are nonsense. Sure it means more accurate bills but the only way it will affect someone’s bill is when they see ow much things cost. I doubt the change will be £100’s even over a year.
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It's never said it would be £100

Originally the adver quoted ofgem saying average saving of £28 per year this then got altered to £11 per year and the wording changed to show you needed to watch your usage and understand how you spend money.

As a supplier we have hated the whole smart meter rollout to the domestic market, in general we earn less because people are re-educated as the masses haven't a clue that leaving things turned on costs them money! Honestly 90% of clients a re clueless that a 60w halogen bulb will cost x amount per hour to operate and the equivalent LED at 4w will cost x amount and save loads over its lifetime.
 
jpaul said:
+1
many of the longer fixed contracts are only accessible with a smart meter too - they are subsidising the tarif to fulfill government install obligations from the non-smarters,
probably some monetization of the telematics too
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Two points here.
1, No they are not subsidising tariffs to fulfil obligations, obligations are meters on the wall/meter box, i.e a percentage of customers accepting a FREE smart meter. By FREE it means FREE, they cannot and are not allowed to charge to undercut or even increase pricing to cover the cost or entice customers to have a smart meter. The cost of install HAS to come out of business profits as per the Smart Metering Code Of Practice all suppliers have to agree to and Ofgem are monitoring this very closely, if anything its hard now to be a supplier than ever before.
2, Telematics :D you mean your meter reading? the reading that are taken at intervals YOU AGREE TO (options are as follows, 30min 1hr, daily, weekly, and monthly default is monthly although most suppliers will pressure sell the 30min option) Oh and its not your supplier that takes the reading but the centralised Government agency called The DCC. The only thing taken from your meter is the readings at the intervals you specify. Suppliers can give your smart meter lots of info (to display on your IHD) but the only thing that leave your meter is a reading.
As for the IHD accompanying the smart meter I still want one where you can download to a smartphone/computer 5 minute usage to see accurately cooking/big-unit useage.
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I believe there is an IHD that can connect to Samsungs Smart Things but that is supplier dependant, although many are going with the cheapest option now as the costs are spiralling out of control.

@chrcoluk your off peak cheap rate will be off set to a more expensive day time rate and higher standing charge, E7 tariffs have always worked this way, and will do always.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Yup so many people fill their kettles right up to make one cup of coffee even though almost all kettles sold in the last two decades will happily just heat a single cup of water for a fraction of the cost.
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That would drive me crazy. Not the energy. But waiting!
 
MissChief said:
The way the adverts talk about a smart meter saving you hundreds are nonsense. Sure it means more accurate bills but the only way it will affect someone’s bill is when they see ow much things cost. I doubt the change will be £100’s even over a year.
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ik9000 said:
this^ It's why I don't want one. I have a digital non-smart meter. It charges me what I use. I know what I use because I pay the bill. I am careful about switching things off at the plug already and choose devices based on energy efficiency. It will make NO difference to me, just make the house more hackable, and give the energy company data on when I'm in/out/on holiday. I'd rather have the privacy and keep my current meter thanks.
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I think you are missing the point here its not about installing a smart meter automatically saves you £100 a year, its about installing the smart meter with the IHD so you can VISUALLY see how much you are using and then this can drive changes in behaviour to in turn save money. Yes you may take readings each month and thats fine but by better visualizing the usage each day or month it helps people change behaviours.

@ik9000 the guff about making your house more hackable and an energy suppliers watching and waiting on your usage to tell when you out.... is utter mental. yes the meters are hackable at extreme lengths but no offence , you arent important enough to warrant someone hacking your meter or a supplier to be concerned if you have gone to costa del chav for 2 weeks. Those kind of comments are proper tinfoil hat territory
 
BigBoy said:
1, No they are not subsidising tariffs to fulfil obligations, obligations are meters on the wall/meter box, i.e a percentage of customers accepting a FREE smart meter. By FREE it means FREE, they cannot and are not allowed to charge to undercut or even increase pricing to cover the cost or entice customers to have a smart meter. The cost of install HAS to come out of business profits as per the Smart Metering Code Of Practice all suppliers have to agree to and Ofgem are monitoring this very closely, if anything its hard now to be a supplier than ever before.
2, Telematics :D you mean your meter reading? the reading that are taken at intervals YOU AGREE TO (options are as follows, 30min 1hr, daily, weekly, and monthly default is monthly although most suppliers will pressure sell the 30min option) Oh and its not your supplier that takes the reading but the centralised Government agency called The DCC. The only thing taken from your meter is the readings at the intervals you specify. Suppliers can give your smart meter lots of info (to display on your IHD) but the only thing that leave your meter is a reading.
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1. the best fixed 12/24 month eon tarifs are only availible if you have a smart meter, so it's a fait accompli to get one, which smells like circumventing 1.
2. I agree, you agree to DCC collecting the data .... does it have a monetary value to them ?, being sold to National grid planning organisation (like the comcerns over peoples nhs data)

BigBoy said:
I believe there is an IHD that can connect to Samsungs Smart Things but that is supplier dependant,
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yes it was bulb - we'd discussed this before in earlier posts - they stopped distributing it/IHD I believe, samsung smarthing also stopped doing hubs, not sure how that impacts that too.
 
jpaul said:
1. the best fixed 12/24 month eon tarifs are only availible if you have a smart meter, so it's a fait accompli to get one, which smells like circumventing 1.
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making smart meters a prerequisite of a tariff is not circumventing anything it a way of getting meters on the wall a large portion of meters I exchange are 20+ years old and have reached end of life, due to being monitored and overshadowed by the Weights and Measures act 1985 all meter have an expiration date, unfortunately due to Ofgem bringing in new rulings we are no longer allowed to re-certify old mechanical meters for domestic metering. The same policy/rules that stopped re-certification also force all new meter to be smart or smart capable.
2. I agree, you agree to DCC collecting the data .... does it have a monetary value to them ?, being sold to National grid planning organisation (like the comcerns over peoples nhs data)
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I see where you are coming from but the data is erroneous there is noting to identify you or your address, or where the data has come from other than a 160 digit ident number, the DCC hold no personal identification
yes it was bulb - we'd discussed this before in earlier posts - they stopped distributing it/IHD I believe, samsung smarthing also stopped doing hubs, not sure how that impacts that too.
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Is a cost issue, suppliers do not want to spend out on something that will only cost them more in the future
 
jpaul said:
1. the best fixed 12/24 month eon tarifs are only availible if you have a smart meter, so it's a fait accompli to get one, which smells like circumventing 1.
2. I agree, you agree to DCC collecting the data .... does it have a monetary value to them ?, being sold to National grid planning organisation (like the comcerns over peoples nhs data)


yes it was bulb - we'd discussed this before in earlier posts - they stopped distributing it/IHD I believe, samsung smarthing also stopped doing hubs, not sure how that impacts that too.
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There are other ways of reading the meter. Have a look at at open energy monitoring. There are non invasive methods such as pulse counting, or using a CT clamp to measure the current. This will actually provide a real-time view, so even more accurate than what your supplier can see.
 
Zenduri said:
I think you are missing the point here its not about installing a smart meter automatically saves you £100 a year, its about installing the smart meter with the IHD so you can VISUALLY see how much you are using and then this can drive changes in behaviour to in turn save money. Yes you may take readings each month and thats fine but by better visualizing the usage each day or month it helps people change behaviours.

@ik9000 the guff about making your house more hackable and an energy suppliers watching and waiting on your usage to tell when you out.... is utter mental. yes the meters are hackable at extreme lengths but no offence , you arent important enough to warrant someone hacking your meter or a supplier to be concerned if you have gone to costa del chav for 2 weeks. Those kind of comments are proper tinfoil hat territory
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Interesting you should assume I'm a chav from that. Feeling superior much? I'll go with the security experts warning of improperly (un)protected smart/IoT devices and the potential for problems. What makes you the expert? Feel free to enlighten us as to your superior credentials since you assume we're all thick chavs for disagreeing with you.
 
wow you hung on that comment hard. Didnt mean offence but just implying you arent important enough for a supplier to be concerned if you are on holiday.... because they dont care. i think you are confusing IOT with a meter with a sim card in it. If you are so concerned with your meter being hacked i assume you dont have a smart phone which is much more vulnerable?
 
Dirk Diggler said:
We're fixed until Feb 2022 so hopefully this has all settled down by then and we get a better deal than if we locked in now. Surely locking in a deal now is a bad move?

For info, we're £139/month for a 4 bed detached house which has gas heating & hob and electric oven.

I've now got a power meter plugged into some appliances and assessing the cost. :)
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Ours runs out in Feb 2022 as well with Shell. Got a really good deal back then so expecting a huge increase in price.

Not looked around too much yet, but wondering if it might be better to sit tight and wait a few months come Feb 2022 to see if things improve and then try and bag a fixed deal for a couple of years.

Our current Direct Debit is £75 per month, 3 bed semi detached with all three of us at home all day (i work from home).

£35 in debit on the current plan so will make a payment at the end to settle up. Average monthly usage cost is about £80-£85 which seems pretty good in comparison to yours, so curious to see how what mine will jump to come Feb.
 
I’d just be riding it out on the SVR now if your contract is coming to an end, it’s lower than the actual cost.

The sainsburys/Eon next ‘deal’ was a tiny fraction below the SVR so it’s hardly a good deal.
 
According to big BoJo, this is a temporary issue caused by the global economy waking up and all turning the kettle on at the same time.

Do we reckon that, if this is the case, wholesale costs will come down and energy companies will actually then reduce the tariffs back down in response or just keep the costs up as "the population is now used to and accept these charges"? :rolleyes:
 
Richie said:
According to big BoJo, this is a temporary issue caused by the global economy waking up and all turning the kettle on at the same time.

Do we reckon that, if this is the case, wholesale costs will come down and energy companies will actually then reduce the tariffs back down in response or just keep the costs up as "the population is now used to and accept these charges"? :rolleyes:
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They'll be competing for business so should be offering best deals, however they'll have learned a lesson here WRT building price fluctuation risk into their plans.
 
Zenduri said:
wow you hung on that comment hard. Didnt mean offence but just implying you arent important enough for a supplier to be concerned if you are on holiday.... because they dont care. i think you are confusing IOT with a meter with a sim card in it. If you are so concerned with your meter being hacked i assume you dont have a smart phone which is much more vulnerable?
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If someone hacks my phone I can turn it off/use another easily enough. I'm stuffed if someone remote disconnects my electricity supply.

https://smartgridawareness.org/2018/10/27/killing-the-grid/
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ectricity-meters-dangerously-insecure-hackers
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-...t-electricity-meter-could-be-a-security-risk/
https://www.information-age.com/smart-metres-vulnerable-cyber-attacks-123470837/
https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/cybersecurity/hacking-smart-meters-a-defence-warning/

That last one is from this year and demonstrated, not just theorised, on how a large-scale batch remote-disconnect could be achieved. People warned of the possibility and it seems the concept is viable. In this method a bit convoluted but demonstrably achievable. The issue is not someone bothering about one person in isolation. The people who will do this will want maximum impact - ransomers/state sponsored actors trying to cause widespread disruption etc. Why have an unnecessary vulnerability? Sending someone out to have to do disconnects is much more sensible. It's not like it's needed repeatedly. If it is people get shoved onto pre-pay meters quick enough.
 
Richie said:
According to big BoJo, this is a temporary issue caused by the global economy waking up and all turning the kettle on at the same time.

Do we reckon that, if this is the case, wholesale costs will come down and energy companies will actually then reduce the tariffs back down in response or just keep the costs up as "the population is now used to and accept these charges"? :rolleyes:
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All these smaller companies will re-appear once prices drop, playing the market again but still unwilling to ride out the inevitable wholesale climb every few years because that would push up their costs.
 
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