Energy Suppliers

b0rn2sk8 said:
Why?
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Big brother n all that. I'm not the tin foil hat kind of person but sure I've read they can just cut you off or limit high usage devices? Probably not in full use at the moment but can imagine will become a thing at the current rate

Didn't even realise I had one installed until the email update today (been in property 18 months)
 
No offence, but what you have written is very much in the scope of needing a tin foil hat.

There is no way for a meter to cut off any high current devices, all it sees is current flowing though it, it can’t tell if that’s from your hot tub or 1000 phone chargers.

Your supplier isn’t allowed to just ‘cut you off’, that isn’t how it works and it’s only a problem if you don’t pay the bill. There is a long process they have to follow first.

Your supply can be disconnected with a non smart meter anyway, the process is the same.

You also can’t have it removed so it’s a mute point anyway and those that don’t have them will be forced in due course.

So yes, I’d suggest Bacofoil, it gives better protection than that thin stuff you get from pound land. :p
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
No offence, but what you have written is very much in the scope of needing a tin foil hat.

There is no way for a meter to cut off any high current devices, all it sees is current flowing though it, it can’t tell if that’s from your hot tub or 1000 phone chargers.

Your supplier isn’t allowed to just ‘cut you off’, that isn’t how it works and it’s only a problem if you don’t pay the bill. There is a long process they have to follow first.

Your supply can be disconnected with a non smart meter anyway, the process is the same.

You also can’t have it removed so it’s a mute point anyway and those that don’t have them will be forced in due course.

So yes, I’d suggest Bacofoil, it gives better protection than that thin stuff you get from pound land. :p
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This lol..

The delusions and misinformation people get about smart meters is actually getting to the stage where its quite impressive
 
Kill_Phil said:
Big brother n all that. I'm not the tin foil hat kind of person but sure I've read they can just cut you off or limit high usage devices? Probably not in full use at the moment but can imagine will become a thing at the current rate

Didn't even realise I had one installed until the email update today (been in property 18 months)
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I've heard they've got built in cameras and microphones too, monitor your kettle efficiency and report any crimes to the government while at it. These smart meters are very basic devices when you think about it.
 
Kill_Phil said:
Big brother n all that. I'm not the tin foil hat kind of person but sure I've read they can just cut you off or limit high usage devices? Probably not in full use at the moment but can imagine will become a thing at the current rate
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You'd want it removed based on unsubstantiated information and pure speculation?
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
No offence, but what you have written is very much in the scope of needing a tin foil hat.

There is no way for a meter to cut off any high current devices, all it sees is current flowing though it, it can’t tell if that’s from your hot tub or 1000 phone chargers.

Your supplier isn’t allowed to just ‘cut you off’, that isn’t how it works and it’s only a problem if you don’t pay the bill. There is a long process they have to follow first.

Your supply can be disconnected with a non smart meter anyway, the process is the same.

You also can’t have it removed so it’s a mute point anyway and those that don’t have them will be forced in due course.

So yes, I’d suggest Bacofoil, it gives better protection than that thin stuff you get from pound land. :p
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Not saying the meters can but it's entirely possible to work out what device is consuming power.
 
robj20 said:
Not saying the meters can but it's entirely possible to work out what device is consuming power.
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Not easily from upstream of the consumer unit. And even if they could work it out, how would they cut off the supply to that device without cutting off supply to everything else?
 
robj20 said:
Not saying the meters can but it's entirely possible to work out what device is consuming power.
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The smart meter measures flow between entry and exit of the meter and back again (in the case of feed in) it does not know and does not care what is using the juice it just see's it moving.
 
Kill_Phil said:
Big brother n all that. I'm not the tin foil hat kind of person but sure I've read they can just cut you off or limit high usage devices? Probably not in full use at the moment but can imagine will become a thing at the current rate

Didn't even realise I had one installed until the email update today (been in property 18 months)
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Regarding limiting high usage devices, I guess you've come across discussion of "Demand Side Response" or similar. This document https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-meters-and-demand-side-response is now quite old, but as you can see it would require you to actively participate - for example installing connected devices and/or the gateway device. I think the capability is there (maybe only in SMETS2?), but I don't think there's been much done with it apart from with smart EV chargers, probably. It's more about shifting use of high power devices to low-demand times than simply shutting them off or limiting them anyway.

Remote disconnection is technically possible, but as others have said it is a license condition that retailers are required to follow the same process as for physical disconnection (including visiting the premises) before doing so. OFGEM's old interim guidance here: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/defa...ion-and-ppm-guidance---open-letter-160810.pdf gives an idea of what is expected of them.

Although, as recently as 2019, OFGEM was concerned that "... some suppliers may be remotely switching smart meters to prepayment mode to collect debt inappropriately and without the customer’s active choice." (https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publicatio...p-suppliers-not-doing-enough-help-manage-debt.) OFGEM went on to say they would monitor the situation as suppliers really shouldn't be doing that. So suppliers can't always be relied on to do what they are supposed to. Remote disconnection does have safety implications, though, so they are unlikely to get too cavalier about it.

You can't have a smart meter replaced with a non-smart meter, to answer your original question.
 
@VersionMonkey thanks for the taking the time to provide a helpful response. Just what I was after. So it isn't beyond the realms of possibility, just not yet legislated for; I suspect its a route we'll ultimately go down seeing as the govt are keen to push smart meters and need to ask yourself why.

Seems like I'm stuck with it.Tbf if I go down the solar route, I think they're mandated anyhow
 
@Kill_Phil I have worked on the metering and supply industry for 22 years and I can without hesitation tell you that all the hair brained "we can switch you off, you will die from radiation, the government is listening to you" is all complete and utter tosh!

The meter records usage statistics, Incoming mains voltage, available amps and supply stability. It then send the data back to the DCC, they know the ID number of the premeses but have no clue where that property is or who owns/lives the property. Your supplier then provides the Premese ID and says this is our customer please give us readings. And that is the end of it. The erroneous data is collated and turned into mass usage graphs as a means to inspect co2 footprints not on a per user scale (as your supplier will do this for you) but on a country scale.

Although the ability to cut supply is available there has to be a very specific legal case for it to happen even with old meters. It is a human right to have access to electricity believe it or not. Anyway suppliers have no interest in cutting you off think about it.....
 
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Kill_Phil said:
I suspect its a route we'll ultimately go down seeing as the govt are keen to push smart meters and need to ask yourself why.
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The reason the government want you to have a smart meter is threefold:
  • To collect data about usage habits of households to better understand how people use energy so they can better understand how to manage the grid in the future
  • the energy monitor is actually useful - you only have to take 5 mins reading the GD version of this thread to realise that most people don't have a clue about how much energy they actually use.
  • It enables suppliers to build better or different products for consumers that want them. For example, Octopus Agile, Go, Go Faster or Intelligent would not be possible with old dumb meters.

@Kill_Phil you need to ask the question why you are even worried about this? They are not going to cut you off because you are going about your daily business.

The demand side response which @VersionMonkey mentioned is mainly about stopping the general public from doing stupid things like plugging in 10 million 7kw EV chargers between 4pm and 8pm when they could happily charge overnight with no issues when domestic and commercial demand is lower. It's not there to stop you cooking your dinner and it doesn't mean you will not be able to use your EV charger in that period, you'll have to manually override it and it might just cost you more to do so. That's fine because you'll know that in advance.
 
@b0rn2sk8 I'm not worried, was more curious :D

Originally asked if stuck with one as somewhat skeptical, especially given the timing on how it's suddenly been enabled at the same time of a huge price increase.
 
Kill_Phil said:
@b0rn2sk8 I'm not worried, was more curious :D

Originally asked if stuck with one as somewhat skeptical, especially given the timing on how it's suddenly been enabled at the same time of a huge price increase.
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It didn't conveniently start working, the DCC are constantly onboarding SMETS1 meters en masse and have been for the last 12-24 months. If the meters were installed properly and the right details make ot yo the DCC then they will continue all the dumb SMETS1 meters restoring the smart functionality. Just coincidental timing yours started communicating when it did
 
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