England Euro 2012 post mortem thread.

[biron_w]

Tweet of the night about this match comes from the official visitengland twitter account:

England lose on penalties. For more on our culture and traditions go to http://www.visitengland.com

 

[syke]

Would we be critical of the tactics if we went through? Hodgson played to the strengths England have which is in defence, and although the football isn't exactly inspiring it was effective enough in terms of results. We were 2 penalties away from a Semi-Final.. People saying it's his mistake choosing the same team as usual, but surely if he had taken a wholesale change including more youngsters and bombed out early he'd get absolutely bloody slaughtered.

At least we can start to bring in more of the players like Ox, Welbeck, Smalling etc more from now on.

 

[muon]

England DO HAVE quality players. You cannot come to me and say Gerrard, Terry, Hart, Cole, Rooney are all **** average players when week in week out they wipe the floor in the EPL, they are all world class players, you just need a manager to work with them for a couple of years not months.

England have some quality players (some isn't enough either) and they aren't in midfield. Gerrard played like half the season and was okay.

 

[Danthus]

The manager/lineup doesn't have anything to do with the result England just have 2nd class players and deserve to be outside the top6-8 top teams

Manager make a huge difference, look at Sunderland when O Neill took over for example.

 

[Tom84]

Just not the case. Kids like Oxlade Chamberlain, Walcott, Gardner, Henderson, just don't play the football required. They are more of the same.

edit: in fact, what young England midfielders are there? I suppose I missed out Cleverley.

Cleverley, Wilshire and Chamberlain are nothing like the current crop of players.

 

[Rameses]

Would we be critical of the tactics if we went through? Hodgson played to the strengths England have which is in defence, and although the football isn't exactly inspiring it was effective enough in terms of results. We were 2 penalties away from a Semi-Final.. People saying it's his mistake choosing the same team as usual, but surely if he had taken a wholesale change including more youngsters and bombed out early he'd get absolutely bloody slaughtered.

At least we can start to bring in more of the players like Ox, Welbeck, Smalling etc more from now on.

 

[The_One]

Cleverley, Wilshire and Chamberlain are nothing like the current crop of players.

exactly so get them in!

 

[dmcg]

Cleverley, Wilshire and Chamberlain are nothing like the current crop of players.

still not world class players only slightly better than what we got

 

[Danthus]

still not world class players only slightly better than what we got

They aren't going to get better warming the bench for Gerrard and Parker are they.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Cleverley, Wilshire and Chamberlain are nothing like the current crop of players.

Wilshire maybe but the other two have a lot to prove.

 

[Tom84]

still not world class players only slightly better than what we got

Technically all 3 are a lot more than just slightly better, you're right none of them are World Class...... Yet.....

 

[muon]

Well Wilshere has been out for a year. I don't think you can just throw him into a team and just see.

 

[LOAM]

Our constant inability to pass the ball is so frustrating, we also seem to revel in playing the football subgame of "pass to the man in trouble". Watching the Italians they complete passes to men in space, England jab the ball to the nearest player who's surrounded by the opposition. No wonder we looked knackered so soon we spent 110 mins chasing the ball.

 

[teejay73]

What was wrong with Eng?

1. 4-4-2
2. 2 man midfield
3. Telling parker to play advanced of Gerrard
4. Using an un-fit Rooney
5. A. Young .. what did he contribute?
6. Sitting deep, counter attack, with a group of players overall lacking in pace.

.. you could go on, but ultimately we sucked due to a combination of players being un-fit, players not being good enough and an incompetent manager (a little bias being a Liverpool fan? maybe, but he did nothing for 90+ mins to combat the space Pirlo was getting, and thats on the managers head).

This in a nutshell! The 4-4-2 get`s soundly beaten in the premiership( the home of the 4-4-2) ask any spurs fan! I think Graham Taylor once said after he was England manger that he realised England would never win anything playing with the 4-4-2 and so it has proved, Time to move the old guard out and overhaul how we do things, Start by getting rid of the 4-4-2 Roy!

 

[syke]

Manager make a huge difference, look at Sunderland when O Neill took over for example.

Massive difference between club/nation, especially England with the expectations/pressure.

Didn't expect much from the tournament before Roy, let alone when he took over and had 2 months to prepare. Quarters and out in penalties isn't bad at all, imo.

 

[BaZ87]

Change in formation and in personal;

---------------Hart---------------
Walker---Smalling---Cahill---Cole
--------------Jones---------------
-----Cleverley-----Wilshire-----
Ox----------Rooney--------Welbeck

Or something like that

If the last generation was known as the golden generation, what's this? The tin generation?

Technically all 3 are a lot more than just slightly better, you're right none of them are World Class...... Yet.....

As Pigeon says, Wilshere yes but the other 2 have a hell of a lot to prove.

 

[mithrandir]

Poor form all round (both England and Italy). Germany will have no trouble beating either of the teams tonight so wouldn't have mattered who won tonight.

Personally I feel England need a complete overhaul of players. Too many 'veterans' and their ways rub off to the newer recruits so it seems the mentaility sticks.

(PS I'm a novice when it comes to footy but thought I'd share what I think )

 

[nicktay2605]

Hopefully this will signal the end of the road for some of the old guard and whoever the manager is at the next WC will give the youngsters a chance to prove themselves. The older players don't have anything to be ashamed of, Terry and Gerrard were good in this tournament, but it is time for England to finally start learning from the example set down by Spain and Germany. We need to focus on possession, movement, and passing, and I think some of the younger players, particularly Wilshere and Cleverley, could be players who are able to improve things a bit.

 

[biron_w]

England need to do what Germany did a few years ago, and reshape their setup,

What Germany did a few years was actually based on something that the FA asked Graham Taylor(I think it was him) to do to try and improve the english game. He wrote a massive document that the FA took a look and dismissed. The german FA took a look at it,thought it was good and adopted a lot of the ideas. And that's one of the reasons they're as good as they are now.

 

[Tom84]

Massive difference between club/nation, especially England with the expectations/pressure.

Didn't expect much from the tournament before Roy, let alone when he took over and had 2 months to prepare. Quarters and out in penalties isn't bad at all, imo.

I don't think you can judge where England finished as a barometer of how well they did in the tournament. They were average against France, average against Sweeden, rubbish against Ukraine and rubbish tonight against Italy. There were teams that performed better that failed to make it out of the group stage!!