Pirlo's 33 and look what he did.
England Euro 2012 post mortem thread.
- Thread starter Danthus
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Pirlo's 33 and look what he did.
He won't against Germany.
I personally don't think there is much wrong with our back four. Jo Hart is also world class in my opinion.
Midfield, I find Milner does the wrong thing all the time, Parker and Gerrard have great work rate, but don't seem to find that cutting edge all the time. I'd like to see more of Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain. They make an instant difference when they come on and inject pace. Rooney I thought was awful. He is slow and unfit and past his best.
I thought Wellbeck was ace throughout. Got back and won the ball a lot. Defended when asked. Won a lot of headers. Same with Caroll really.
Young was terrible all tourno imo.
Bottom line, we need to keep the ball. It's school boy stuff really. Keep the ball for the love of god. Watch the best teams - posession is key.
I know refs get a hard time, but I thought the overall standard of referreing in Euro 2012 was way below par.
Midfield, I find Milner does the wrong thing all the time, Parker and Gerrard have great work rate, but don't seem to find that cutting edge all the time. I'd like to see more of Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain. They make an instant difference when they come on and inject pace. Rooney I thought was awful. He is slow and unfit and past his best.
I thought Wellbeck was ace throughout. Got back and won the ball a lot. Defended when asked. Won a lot of headers. Same with Caroll really.
Young was terrible all tourno imo.
Bottom line, we need to keep the ball. It's school boy stuff really. Keep the ball for the love of god. Watch the best teams - posession is key.
I know refs get a hard time, but I thought the overall standard of referreing in Euro 2012 was way below par.
Soldato
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Exactly. I hate to bang on about it but Spain and Germany are the teams we ought to be basing ourselves on, and they hardly have pace to burn. Ok, they have a few players who are pretty quick, but most of their players are incredibly technically gifted when it comes to passing and moving. If we had a few midfielders close to the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Pirlo, or Ozil, we'd be an infinitely better team.
If that's what you want then we need a new manager. With the appointment of Hodgson, we're basing ourselves on Greece.
Start producing players like Jack Wilshire every year or two instead of every 10-15 years and we might have a shot, until then forget it.
Unless they're technically outstanding from very young it gets coached out of them, so we end up with one long ball merchant after another. Sick of it, watch how many times we make a 15+ yard overhead pass, it's a joke. We seem to have the mentality of 'at least we've got it clear' when it comes to the long ball, but that ignores the fact that 9/10 don't hit the target so it ends up coming straight back for us to do the same again.
Here's an idea, how about instead of using pace and power as the foundation for our young players coming through, we use ball control instead? It's simple, if you're a midfielder and you're not comfortable with the ball at your feet under pressure, able to find the simple pass then move into space to potentially receive it, you're not good enough. And if you attempt a long ball, have it be because the pass was actually on, not because you **** yourself under a bit of pressure and took the easy way out.
We're inept, lets stop praising our players for having heart and determination, that should also be a minimum, and when we play teams that have that as well as technical ability we're going to lose every time. One off games we might scrape through, but a whole tournament, no chance. Just look at tonight, if we won, we then have to get past Germany, and then Portugal or Spain, we shouldn't be going into tournaments with as much chance of winning the lottery.
It's so obvious, yet I'm not sure I'll ever witness the problem get fixed, so we'll spend forever scratching our heads wondering hey, how come Spain keep producing technically outstanding players, and Germany, and Brazil, they must just be lucky
.
Unless they're technically outstanding from very young it gets coached out of them, so we end up with one long ball merchant after another. Sick of it, watch how many times we make a 15+ yard overhead pass, it's a joke. We seem to have the mentality of 'at least we've got it clear' when it comes to the long ball, but that ignores the fact that 9/10 don't hit the target so it ends up coming straight back for us to do the same again.
Here's an idea, how about instead of using pace and power as the foundation for our young players coming through, we use ball control instead? It's simple, if you're a midfielder and you're not comfortable with the ball at your feet under pressure, able to find the simple pass then move into space to potentially receive it, you're not good enough. And if you attempt a long ball, have it be because the pass was actually on, not because you **** yourself under a bit of pressure and took the easy way out.
We're inept, lets stop praising our players for having heart and determination, that should also be a minimum, and when we play teams that have that as well as technical ability we're going to lose every time. One off games we might scrape through, but a whole tournament, no chance. Just look at tonight, if we won, we then have to get past Germany, and then Portugal or Spain, we shouldn't be going into tournaments with as much chance of winning the lottery.
It's so obvious, yet I'm not sure I'll ever witness the problem get fixed, so we'll spend forever scratching our heads wondering hey, how come Spain keep producing technically outstanding players, and Germany, and Brazil, they must just be lucky
.
Terry looked 'old' in the group stages. He was regularly out paced where younger defenders wouldn't have been. That's not to say he wasn't magnificent in places during euro2012, he was brilliant when he didn't need his pace. In 2 more years he'll be well past it at world cup level. Gerrard, I fear, will be the same too in 2 years time. Time for new blood methinks.
Soldato
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It'll take more than a new manager! It's a problem that's endemic in English football from a very young age. As wedgie says, players need to be taught at a young age to be calm under pressure, look for the simple pass, above all else keep the ball. If the long ball is on, play it, but otherwise keep on pinging the ball about. It wears the other team out because they have to chase you all over the pitch to get it back.
In fact, the player who I would hold up as an example to English youngsters is actually Paul Scholes. He's got the range of passing and the footballing brain that very few English footballers seem to possess, and is the kind of midfielder England needs to produce more of.
Explain?
I know but you could give Hodgson Spain's squad and we'd still play the same way we're playing now.
as already mentioned until we can get players happy to pass the move and mix that with decent movement we won't stand a chance of doing anything decent.
but that starts at the clubs/there academies and the FA, and tbh the FA will make sod all useful changes because they don't have a clue.
but that starts at the clubs/there academies and the FA, and tbh the FA will make sod all useful changes because they don't have a clue.
More **** from Cheets. What a surprise!
Caporegime
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in a match like that you have to take your chances and johnson missed his and rooney had a couple. score one and you might just do it but you won't get loads of chances you have to be clinical when you get them and we were not.
Soldato
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Wedgie can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what he essentially means is that many coaches at a youth level are stuck in the mud and too focused on the old ways. They are still looking for big, strong players who are able to physically dominate their opponents, when really size and physique should be a very minor consideration. In Spain, players who go to La Masia (Barcelona's youth academy) are taught a specific way of playing from a very young age, and aren't ignored if they are small or slight. What's more important is their ability to always be two steps ahead, looking for the next pass and the space to run into.
It's sad to say, but I suspect that if Messi had been born in England, he wouldn't have received the support and nurturing that he did in Argentina and would have simply been overlooked for being 'too small'.
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Not really we needed Rooney to do something, he did nothing, a header he should have burred and a bicycle kicked he ballsed up but put one away for Man Utd, Welbeck did nothing, look how much space Mario made for himself
CLUB > COUNTRY
Soldato
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One of the sad realisations is that before Capello quit, you could see he was trying to build a new fresh team, and to some degree it was working. He took the problems of the WC 2010, and tried to iron them out. He did that first by scrapping the old 4-4-2 formation, went more for a 4-3-3 (which at times worked out quite well in the friendlies and qualifiers) and gave the younger players a chance.
The fear I have with Roy is he that he is playing back into what we tried to remove from our squad before Capello quit. I fear he will stick with 4-4-2 and use the old guard and until they are eventually too old to play anymore, resulting in a lack of opportunities for younger players to get in the squad and be given the chance.
The fear I have with Roy is he that he is playing back into what we tried to remove from our squad before Capello quit. I fear he will stick with 4-4-2 and use the old guard and until they are eventually too old to play anymore, resulting in a lack of opportunities for younger players to get in the squad and be given the chance.
Tbf Cheets may have a point, if he's not going to get to play with players of ability in the national side why not remove himself from selection and save having the nations hopes being soley on his shoulders ever 2 years
