England V India ***Clash of the Heavyweights*** Test, T20 and ODI Series

platypus said:
How can you even compare the two?

A dubious decision, pitched clearly outside the line (Tuffnel, Aggers: Test Match Special) which certainly the bowler and wicket keeper would have known from their positioning (and yet they appealed for) compared to an off-side sweep which unfortunately hit the fielder at silly point?

Obviously they would appeal, and whilst a few of them would have known it was outside the line, I still wouldn't call it cheating. But to compare the two incidents?
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- Prior hit Gambhir, knowing full well that he'd injure and decided to go through with it anyway.

- India appealed, even though they knew they were breaking the rules of cricket, and decided to go through with it anyway.


India didn't actually cheat, or force a wrong decision to be made. Prior didn't actually purposely injure Gambhir.

Those were both just results of a decision taken by each party, which each part actually had no control over. Those are the grounds that I'm comparing on :)
 
TheCenturion said:
- Prior hit Gambhir, knowing full well that he'd injure and decided to go through with it anyway.
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Ridiculous thing to say, utterly utterly ridiculous. Stupid even. Fielding placings are not the fault of the batsman.

- India appealed, even though they knew they were breaking the rules of cricket, and decided to go through with it anyway.


India didn't actually cheat, or force a wrong decision to be made. Prior didn't actually purposely injure Gambhir.

Those were both just results of a decision taken by each party, which each part actually had no control over. Those are the grounds that I'm comparing on :)
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The two situations are not comparable.
 
Here's my thoughts on the DRS:

It's often been said that the point of the DRS is to try to eliminate howlers from the game. Let us define a howler, I think that a howler is a decision from an umpire which at first glance can be seen to be incorrect by the common viewer (with a fair degree of confidence).

Now I'd like to say that if an umpire has been deemed of sufficient quality to officiate in an international fixture between two high profile sides, then we should not expect any howlers from him. However, nobody is perfect and I think that we must accept that perhaps howlers will occasionally be made. A howler is a howler, and they should not be made on any regular basis, certainly not in the same match and definitely not 2 in the same innings. So if it gets to a point where howlers are being made each match, I think that the first thing that needs to be looked at is improving the quality of umpiring.

Now, in terms of marginal decision, I think that these are wonderful things. I think that a marginal decision is one that at first glance could appear to go to either team and therefore leaves people divided on the issue. Eg: Praveen Kumar's lbw decision earlier in this match. I don't think that DRS would help for decisions like this. What makes us wholeheartedly trust the technology at 2.45 metres, but 5 centimetres further, we rely on the umpires opinion? If it is marginal, and we cannot make the decision ourselves, then how can we trust the technology to make it for us? Especially as the makers of tracking technology themselves admit that it's not 100% accurate (shown by the requirement for more than half the ball to be hitting the stumps). Given this fact, whatever decision reached on a marginal appeal could easily be wrong.

Now, the argument for DRS is that it can result in more correct decisions being made. This assumes that the incorrect decision is reviewed. (There's no guarantee that cook would have decided to review the decision against him). It also assumes that after review the correct decision will be made (going back to my point about accuracy).

Now, I think that my argument mainly applies to DRS for LBW. There is also an argument about cost, but that's not relevant for this series and I'm hungry so I can't be bothered to go into it. I'm not saying the above argument is perfect, but it's logical and it flows, and I think that you can understand what I'm trying to say.
 
You're both ridiculous is what I think. Do I think India are cheating? No, doesn't mean I like the fact that appeals are a big part of the game, regardless of their actual validity.

But if you can't see the difference between a batsman hitting someone at silly point, and a team claiming a wicket when at least a few of them knew the ball had been pitched outside the line then I can't really help you.
 
platypus said:
You're both ridiculous is what I think. Do I think India are cheating? No, doesn't mean I like the fact that appeals are a big part of the game, regardless of their actual validity.

But if you can't see the difference between a batsman hitting someone at silly point, and a team claiming a wicket when at least a few of them knew the ball had been pitched outside the line then I can't really help you.
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But you can't prove that any of them knew that it wasn't out. It's a standard practice in cricket to appeal for anything that hits the pads, unless of course it's extremely obvious that it's not out.

Not only that but they accused India of cheating. Which is just wrong. India didn't cheat at all.
 
No I can't prove any of them know it wasn't out. But the wicket keeper and bowler, and possibly a few of the slips would have seen it pitch outside the line from their position on the field, and still claimed the lbw. You honestly can't see why people might take umbrage at that and even consider it cheating?
 
platypus said:
No I can't prove any of them know it wasn't out. But the wicket keeper and bowler, and possibly a few of the slips would have seen it pitch outside the line from their position on the field, and still claimed the lbw. You honestly can't see why people might take umbrage at that and even consider it cheating?
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I thought that it hit in line and that the problem that people have is the height rather than where it pitched? In that case, I honestly don't think that the Indians did anything wrong. There'd have a case if it pitched outside, but especially as these players play on the slow tracks in the sub continent where more often than not, that length is going to hit the stumps even from a tall bowler like Sharma.

What I was trying to get at, was once I grilled them that India didn't cheat, and that the umpire made the mistake, they then started calling Gambhir a wuss! :(
 
If Morgan gets dropped from the team, which could happen given his returns so far, who would England go with as a replacement?

I'm not too familiar with other English test batsmen. Bopara? Owais Shah? Or given the caliber of their tail, could they go with 5 bowlers?
 
Yes Morgan hasn't been great lately. It is fine when the team is doing well but when he comes in with England in trouble he doesn't seem to settle quickly.

Not sure who else would come in - probably Ravi Bopara.
 
TheCenturion said:
If Morgan gets dropped from the team, which could happen given his returns so far, who would England go with as a replacement?

I'm not too familiar with other English test batsmen. Bopara? Owais Shah? Or given the caliber of their tail, could they go with 5 bowlers?
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There's no one i would pick, honestly.
Bopara's just as bad/inconsistent in test settings as Morgan.

Considering the other options i would rather bring Colly back =/
 
Time to start looking towards the draw imo, looking at the weather for tomorrow++ we won't enjoy the same environmental help that India have had the joys of.
I agree with Mr Holding, not sure i like a toss influencing a game to this extent.
 
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