England v Pakistan **spoilers**

IMO it is Pakistan that have caused this problem and it is through their actions alone that this has become the 'incident' it has.

Not saying whether or not Pakistan are guilty of "...changing the condition of the ball.." is irrelevant atm but they are certainly guilty of bringing the game into disrepute by their actions of staying in their dressing room - which is almost childish and (unfortunately) worthy of a football game. Personally, I don't think that the Pakistani team have done anything wrong as I have yet to see any conclusive evidence to this end rather :-

1) the series has bCeen played in good spirits (as cricket should be) and if their were to be accusations of 'cheating' then they would have surfaced in an earlier test match.

2) what would PK gain from 'cheating' the series is lost and their is nothing at stake (apart from a little pride maybe) - but nothing that needs them to cheat to win.

In the proper spirit of cricket the PK team should have carried on playing after tea and made their protest at the end of the day to the match referee / IC official.

The umpires may have made a wrong decisio; but you play the game,you abide by the rules and at the end of the day during the match the umpires word is law, final..

This match will go down in infamy...... for the wrong reasons. :(
 
e36Adz said:
I for one am glad Pakistan took that stand when they did. Had they just carried on quietly people would be saying well they didnt seem to bothered about being called cheaters, they were quick to just carry on with the game etc. If the game continued and say Pakistan actually WON, I would have loved to hear what people would have been saying then!

No, i'm glad they made their stand when they did, now something HAS to be done. I wish could say im 100% certain that no one was tampering with the ball but we will have wait and see what comes out. But what a suprise that fat useless waste of space Darrell Hair is right in the centre of it again :rolleyes: I remember the last series I saw Pakistan playing, when they had the same umpire, he made some absolute shockers of decisions. Hes a blatant cheat, I said it in here then and il say it now.

"We are going to make it clear to the International Cricket Council that we are not going to play under the supervision of Hair in any future matches," said Pakistan Cricket Board chairman Shaharyar Khan.

About time!
Click to expand...

well, it'd be difficult to accuse them of cheating had they won as the ball was changed, the only difference is *maybe* cook wouldn't have lost his wicket.

to be honest i think although it's very sad, pakistan acted stupidly in forfeiting a game they could easily have won. they could have made their protest in several other (legal and pre defined) ways without endangering the match.

personally the cheating doesn't matter, i suspect they probably did nothing wrong, but i think inzi should recieve punishment for bring the game into disrepute, because he knowingly did so and thats not acceptable. it's really very sad considering how much respect I (and of course many others) have for him and many other members of the pakistan team
 
It is a shame for Inzi as he really seems like a nice likeable bloke, all the young Pakistani players seem to look up to him too.
I can't help feeling that he's had some bad advice over this, that PCB chairman really seems full of hot air & I'm sure he's bent a few facts in his statements :/
 
Pakistan generally react sensitively to this - Hair should have changed the ball but left the judgement on how it was damaged until the end of the session. Behind closed doors this might have been resolved. Most of the storm seems to have centred on how Hair reacted. The umpires (and the ICC rules) should be a little more sensitive to this.

Had Hair been in Pakistan/India then he wouldn`t have had the balls to call it on the spot as he wouldn`t have made it out of the ground alive. As is, he knows that he`s just avoided being posted to Asia again. Maybe that was the plan?
 
bigredshark said:
personally the cheating doesn't matter, i suspect they probably did nothing wrong, but i think inzi should recieve punishment for bring the game into disrepute, because he knowingly did so and thats not acceptable. it's really very sad considering how much respect I (and of course many others) have for him and many other members of the pakistan team
Click to expand...

The English side have been cheating/bending the rules on ball shining for the past few years (as have most sides). You can see the glacier mints in their pockets, and they practice landing the rough side when the play is benign. So long as you are not ripping in to it then its just an accepted part of the game.
 
i bet inzi wasnt the one who decided to stay behind, maybe some of the higher up chairman or someone. He did seem anxious to come out and was stopped, i thought i saw!
 
Thing is, had this been say umpire Bucknor, Taufel, or similar, I would be 100% behind the umpires decision. These umpires are fair and consistent and being human they do make the odd mistake but they do their job well. Darrell Hair however, does not. I clearly remember some absolute shocking decisions he gave against Pakistan only the last year I think it was, they have complained about him before and so have others. He is a disgrace of an umpire imo.

The thing that seems abit odd to me, is that Inzo waited until bad light/tea break and THEN decided to make the small protest. I think someone had a little word in his ear when the team went in, Inzi is really quite a simple bloke who probably just listened to the advice he was given. Personally, as soon as Pakistan were accused of cheating, I would have made the protest then and led the team off the pitch.
 
e36Adz said:
Thing is, had this been say umpire Bucknor, Taufel, or similar, I would be 100% behind the umpires decision. These umpires are fair and consistent and being human they do make the odd mistake but they do their job well. Darrell Hair however, does not. I clearly remember some absolute shocking decisions he gave against Pakistan only the last year I think it was, they have complained about him before and so have others. He is a disgrace of an umpire imo.

The thing that seems abit odd to me, is that Inzo waited until bad light/tea break and THEN decided to make the small protest. I think someone had a little word in his ear when the team went in, Inzi is really quite a simple bloke who probably just listened to the advice he was given. Personally, as soon as Pakistan were accused of cheating, I would have made the protest then and led the team off the pitch.
Click to expand...

Well, Hair actually has a reputation as being very capable in most respects, i believe it's simon taufel who is quoted as saying he knows the rules the best of any member of the elite panel...

He is involved in controversial decisions a fair bit though
 
sedm1000 said:
The English side have been cheating/bending the rules on ball shining for the past few years (as have most sides). You can see the glacier mints in their pockets, and they practice landing the rough side when the play is benign. So long as you are not ripping in to it then its just an accepted part of the game.
Click to expand...

not even really bending the rules as it goes, saliva is allowed while shining the ball and thats all they apply, yeah, the sugar based sweets is cheeky but easily within the rules.

as for landing it on the rough side, well yes, but it's impossible to prove

to be honest i believe everybody does it
 
bigredshark said:
not even really bending the rules as it goes, saliva is allowed while shining the ball and thats all they apply, yeah, the sugar based sweets is cheeky but easily within the rules.

as for landing it on the rough side, well yes, but it's impossible to prove

to be honest i believe everybody does it
Click to expand...


If you are allowed to improve the condition for normal swing, why not reverse swing? Letting the ball age more quickly makes it softer and easier to play later (esp. if reverse swing doesn`t work).
 
Tinders said:
From reading the papers today it seems this is slowly being turned in a race/religion issue aswell, which is disappointing considering englands brightest future prospects this summer have been asian (a sikh monty, and muslim mahmood).
Click to expand...

Well, diverging from the current topic, if you think mahmood is anything like englands brightest prospect from the summer it says bad things about english cricket. He only played because Liam Plunket and James Anderson were struck down with whatever it is that strikes down all england players before long. Before long Broad will be another better prospect as a bowler (this assumes mahmood doesn't find some consistency down the back of the sofa or something)

Back to the race religion thing, it is being made out that Hair is perhaps racist, this is a nasty allegation true but not really knowing much about him besides his rep as a competant umpire I find it plausible. I'm going to get flamed like hell for this but if you think about the racism that comes out of australian crowds (and players not so long ago) then it seems plausible (i said possible, not likely bear in mind).

On to the topic of england players 'cheating' regarding polishing the ball, well, what they do is within the rules, the only way you stop it is by banning any attempt to alter the condition of the ball (no polishing, nothing).

Still, it was nice to see england and pakistan getting on well, and prior to this incident, race or religion meant nothing in this series, between the teams it still doesn't.
 
sedm1000 said:
If you are allowed to improve the condition for normal swing, why not reverse swing? Letting the ball age more quickly makes it softer and easier to play later (esp. if reverse swing doesn`t work).
Click to expand...

It does make it softer but can make it far harder to get away, you might take wickets with the new ball but you'll give away runs too. I've opened the batting at a reasonably high level and after it starts to get a little softer it does get noticeably harder to get away well.

You are allowed to improve the condition of the ball for any type of swing providing it's within the rules, and improving the condition for reverse swing is the same as for normal swing to some extent, just to a greater extent.

I'm not a physicist but i understand it largely happens when the rough side gets so scuffed that it starts to assume the characteristics of the smooth side. So any attempt to promote reverse swing by scuffing one side would be a violation of the rules, however keeping one side well polished and letting the other side degrade (maybe helping by throwing to land on that side) would be fine. I also understand it needs a genuinely fast bowler (85mph +) to get the best out of it. With all that in mind, I'm sticking to batting and my occassional off spin :)
 
bigredshark said:
It does make it softer but can make it far harder to get away, you might take wickets with the new ball but you'll give away runs too. I've opened the batting at a reasonably high level and after it starts to get a little softer it does get noticeably harder to get away well.

You are allowed to improve the condition of the ball for any type of swing providing it's within the rules, and improving the condition for reverse swing is the same as for normal swing to some extent, just to a greater extent.

I'm not a physicist but i understand it largely happens when the rough side gets so scuffed that it starts to assume the characteristics of the smooth side. So any attempt to promote reverse swing by scuffing one side would be a violation of the rules, however keeping one side well polished and letting the other side degrade (maybe helping by throwing to land on that side) would be fine. I also understand it needs a genuinely fast bowler (85mph +) to get the best out of it. With all that in mind, I'm sticking to batting and my occassional off spin :)
Click to expand...

By that time you should be 60NO and seeing it well enough not to care ;)

You can throw it against an old track, but not a concrete wall? The difference is so minor (remember, for 6 runs you can have it hit against a wall legally), that I dont see the real issue. So long as you do not come equipped - and do not develop a cheating thumbnail, then I think there is a case to allow a bit of both.
 
In other news a former pakistani Test cricketer, Wasim Raja brother of Ramiz Raja had a fatal heart attack while playing an over 50's match in Surrey :(

RIP :(

As for the pak incident, havent seen much of it tbh...havent really been paying much attention to the test series that much tbh. But from what i saw and heard i think the only mistake Inzi made was not walking off the field as soon as that umpire Hair decided to change the ball. That was his mistake but then hes from a village so isnt too clued up tbh and probably was in some way influenced by the Pak cricket board chairman.
When Hair went off to change the ball, it was then that Inzi should have told his guys to walk off the field and not continue playing. If it was Wasim Akram or Imran Khan you can be certain they wouldnt have bowled another ball.

As for paks reaction, i dont blame them for not coming back out. That Hair is an utter moron and is an idiot...a few times he didnt give lbw when it was shown in the replays that it was an lbw. Anyways whats done is done, i dont think Pak really cared about the last test as they had already lost the series. Will be interesting to see if they play in the ODI's though, in a way id rather they stick their ground and refuse to play but then on the other had i do want to see them give England a good ole thrashing. Inzi is right, Hair should be banned and Inzi's ban should be taken away....i dont think it was fair to give him a few games ban personally.

I guess the ECB has lost quite a bit of money over this, what a shambles Hair has made out of this...idiot:rolleyes:
 
All this stuff about Hair being the bad guy is just rubbish. He acted within the rules, they didn't & thats why the game was forfeited. He obviously thought they altered the condition of the ball in some way & acted accordingly.
Also why aren't they kicking up a fuss about Doctrove too?
SA have said that if Pak. don't fulfill the one dayers they'd love, too as they've recently called off a tour to SL due to security issues:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom