Englands World Cup Failure

First part correct, second part absolute and complete rubbish. The best English players are IN the premier league, the worse English players, are in the premier league also, the even worse are in lower leagues, less foreigners means our best english players who would get in the England team, play and train every week with worse players, and play competitively against worse players, I find it incredibly stupid to suggest that England would be a better team if the England players, faced a lower level of competition in the league and had to work less hard to win things.

Just to touch on your quote, the second part was only a mere stating of a an opinion so it may well be rubbish, but who knows. You are probably correct in saying that England would be worse off with less foreign players, but I didn't state the details on that ;)

However, the last two weeks shows even with the Premier League getting the best out of our highest skilled players, the performance and results at competitive international level will not always be a good one. If the England players did achieve less, they might actually put more effort in, a whole lot more effort than this World Cup isn't really a sizable amount though...

Your rant about SWP Upson and Heskey etc is actually a nice one and I think most England fans would agree.
 
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The only German players worth considering are Ozil, Podolski and Muller. They have 2 average center backs, 1 great full back ( A.Cole is even better) an average midfield and once again an average strike force. Difference is they play collectively.

Was thinking this during the game. The old saying about the value of all the sum parts. Germany are worth more as a tactical unit.
 
All the people saying England's players are all rubbish... Well maybe when they play for England, but Ashley Cole, John Terry, Frank Lampard... Well it would be interesting to see how Chelsea would've done without those 3, and Wayne Rooney was almost top goal scorer in the premier league. I guess these are all rubbish players? I bet if they were German, they would easily get into the squad

Why they lost:
Well we can't see everything the manager sees, but a lot of his decisions seem bizarre (stupid, idiotic)
England players playing badly on the day (Although not all of them had bad games every game, but generally, less than what you would expect from decent players)
So many defensive errors... Pretty much every chance Germany had was a defensive mistake
Little pace defensively
Crap offense in the group stages

And of course, England might have managed to scrape through against Germany, ready to face Argentina if it wasn't for the referees error... How can you say Germany would still have won if England were 2-2 at half time? Do you really think it's that certain that Germany would have scored on counter attacks twice if England weren't chasing a goal?
 
But you wouldn't really would you?

* 01 Neuer
* 03 Friedrich Yellow card
* 16 Lahm Captain
* 17 Mertesacker
* 20 Boateng
* 06 Khedira
* 07 Schweinsteiger
* 08 Ozil (Kiessling, 83)
* 10 Podolski
* 11 Klose (Gomez, 72)
* 13 Muller (Trochowski, 72)

England

* 01 James
* 02 G Johnson Yellow card (Wright-Phillips, 87)
* 03 A Cole
* 06 Terry
* 15 Upson
* 04 Gerrard Captain
* 08 Lampard
* 14 Barry
* 16 Milner (J Cole, 63)
* 10 Rooney
* 19 Defoe (Heskey, 71)

The only German players worth considering are Ozil, Podolski and Muller. They have 2 average center backs, 1 great full back ( A.Cole is even better) an average midfield and once again an average strike force. Difference is they play collectively.

James vs Neuer is tough, James is no doubt more experienced but I also think he is prone to mistakes, Neuer I know less about so it wouldn't be fair to judge.

I'd take Lahm over Johnson every day, he's far more experienced, better going forward and staying back.

Cole over Boateng - Baoteng didn't impress me.

Terry over Freidrich - Terry can play better than he has this tournament so I would pick him.

Mertsesacker over Upson - Shouldn't need explanation.

Schweinsteiger over Barry - Again obvious, Schweinsteiger is better at everything.

Gerrard over Khedira - Would be tougher it was Ballack but Khedira doesn't look anything special.

Ozil over Lampard - Remember club record is irrelevant here, Ozil has been at the heart of everything that Germany have done this world cup, Lampard has been AWOL most of the time.

Muller over Milner - Close but Muller has looked far better this tournament than Milner, has taken his goals well.

Klose over Heskey/Defoe - Top class finisher and target man at international level, lots of experience.

Rooney over Podolski - Podloski has been playing better but if you were to stick either Rooney or Podolski in the above team I think Rooney would do better.
 
They are one of the major powers in world football. On paper our current squad is probably the second (debatable) strongest behind Spain, it's just our players aren't performing when they put an England shirt on.

Nice to see another pessimistic post by a Scottish user.

This is a laughable view. Good players do not necessarily make a good team. Look the the Galácticos of Madrid - sure they could buy any talent they want but relative to the players they had they were a poorly functioning team for years.

As I see it, from a footballing and not an anti-English stance, England lack players in some key areas. None of England's midfielders are particularly great passers of the ball - certainly not at a level close to the likes of Xavi and Spain. They lose the ball to easily and struggle to retain possession against better opposition. They also lack a player who will drive at a defence and take people on. Gerrard and Lampard aren't going to go and beat multiple men to spark a move. All the best teams have someone who will go and beat a man the England team really lacks someone of this drive and ability.

Then you look at Glen Johnson, Heskey and Upson and wonder why on earth the fans would expect to win.
 
But you wouldn't really would you?

* 01 Neuer
* 03 Friedrich Yellow card
* 16 Lahm Captain
* 17 Mertesacker
* 20 Boateng
* 06 Khedira
* 07 Schweinsteiger
* 08 Ozil (Kiessling, 83)
* 10 Podolski
* 11 Klose (Gomez, 72)
* 13 Muller (Trochowski, 72)

England

* 01 James
* 02 G Johnson Yellow card (Wright-Phillips, 87)
* 03 A Cole
* 06 Terry
* 15 Upson
* 04 Gerrard Captain
* 08 Lampard
* 14 Barry
* 16 Milner (J Cole, 63)
* 10 Rooney
* 19 Defoe (Heskey, 71)

The only German players worth considering are Ozil, Podolski and Muller. They have 2 average center backs, 1 great full back ( A.Cole is even better) an average midfield and once again an average strike force. Difference is they play collectively.

Ahhahahahahahahahahahah.

Sorry but if you are incapable of seeing that Schweinsteiger on his own is a different class to our midfielders then you are mental.

Also you are aware that lahm is a right back ? so comparing him to Cole is a bit strange imo.

2 average centre backs well thats better than one very good and one god awful centre back,

How is Klose average, he's come of a poor season and has scored more goals in the tournament than any England player, and has 12/13 world cup goals to his name, can you find me the England strikers with that record please ?

They have a keeper who was nominated for the UEFA team of the year for last year, and guess what David James wasn't.

Sorry but you just show the general ignorance of anything outside the premiership shown by huge numbers in this country, nobody with a brain outside this country even gave us a hope in hell of getting anywhere in this world cup.
 

Germany don't have the big name players but it's difficult to find too many weak areas in their side.

'On paper', Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Cole and Terry are better than what Germany have to offer but not by much and certainly not if you look at International performances in isolation.

Germany are a solid team (probably slightly weaker than us 'on paper') but they've found a system that works for them. Capello's failed to do that, and I don't buy into the stuff about him coming up with a system to fit in players, he's just got it wrong.
 
Judging them as team England, and not as individuals, not even in the top 20.

Seeing as my whole argument is that we play as individuals and not a team I though it would have been quite obvious the question was with with regards to individual ability.
 
They also lack a player who will drive at a defence and take people on. Gerrard and Lampard aren't going to go and beat multiple men to spark a move. All the best teams have someone who will go and beat a man the England team really lacks someone of this drive and ability.

Absolutely. The first thing our midfield do if anyone gets close is either pass back to our defence, square it to the wide men or hoof it up-field.

They never seem to want to just run at the opposition. None of them seem to have the guile to pass people.
 
I as quite clearly referring to them as individuals. Seeing as that is my whole argument, great ability, woeful teamwork.

It's not even woeful teamwork. No coach in their right mind would sign England's entire team - too many similar players who can strike a ball but lack invention and real technical ability.
 
30 - 40th.

Do you have any idea what kind of teams are 30th-40th?

Here's some guidance:
FIFA ranks Australia as #20 and Serbia #25

Are you really saying that England are far worse ability wise than Australia?

Seriously, if you say yes, it is obvious that you just too much of an idiot to eat your evidently wrong words
 
Do you have any idea what kind of teams are 30th-40th?

Here's some guidance:
FIFA ranks Australia as #20 and Serbia #25

Are you really saying that England are far worse ability wise than Australia?

Seriously, if you say yes, it is obvious that you just too much of an idiot to eat your evidently wrong words

They are, depending how they decide to play, around the 8th to 16th mark - just what the results showed.
 
Ahhahahahahahahahahahah.

How witty of you.

Sorry but if you are incapable of seeing that Schweinsteiger on his own is a different class to our midfielders then you are mental.

Lampard and Gerrard are both better midfielders than Schweinsteiger.

Also you are aware that lahm is a right back ? so comparing him to Cole is a bit strange imo.

My mistake.

2 average centre backs well thats better than one very good and one god awful centre back,

Capello's retarded decision making again, should have played Dawson/King, I don't care about experience.

How is Klose average, he's come of a poor season and has scored more goals in the tournament than any England player, and has 12/13 world cup goals to his name, can you find me the England strikers with that record please ?

He's had a terrible season and bagged a goal today against one of the worst defensive errors you'll ever see. He used to be quality but is past it now imo

They have a keeper who was nominated for the UEFA team of the year for last year, and guess what David James wasn't.

Yep, their keep looks decent, it's hardly rocket science that England aren't blessed with the best goalkeepers.

Sorry but you just show the general ignorance of anything outside the premiership shown by huge numbers in this country, nobody with a brain outside this country even gave us a hope in hell of getting anywhere in this world cup.

I heard from the German media they were very fearful of England. Not a clue if that's true or not.
 
Seeing as my whole argument is that we play as individuals and not a team I though it would have been quite obvious the question was with with regards to individual ability.

Well, OK then. Let's do it individually, just for you. Our wingers suck. Shaun W-P? Lennon? Walcott? Hardly setting the world on fire with their ability are they.

Our strikers... Defoe, Crouch and Heskey. Telling me that's the 2nd best strikeforce in the world? Ha!

Then there's Johnson in defence, Milner and Barry... these are the 2nd best players in the world in their position?

Come on, it's just ridiculous.
 
But you wouldn't really would you?

* 01 Neuer
* 03 Friedrich Yellow card
* 16 Lahm Captain
* 17 Mertesacker
* 20 Boateng
* 06 Khedira
* 07 Schweinsteiger
* 08 Ozil (Kiessling, 83)
* 10 Podolski
* 11 Klose (Gomez, 72)
* 13 Muller (Trochowski, 72)

England

* 01 James
* 02 G Johnson Yellow card (Wright-Phillips, 87)
* 03 A Cole
* 06 Terry
* 15 Upson
* 04 Gerrard Captain
* 08 Lampard
* 14 Barry
* 16 Milner (J Cole, 63)
* 10 Rooney
* 19 Defoe (Heskey, 71)

The only German players worth considering are Ozil, Podolski and Muller. They have 2 average center backs, 1 great full back ( A.Cole is even better) an average midfield and once again an average strike force. Difference is they play collectively.

I'd take Schweinsteiger too, and in a world cup I'd also take Klose
 
But you wouldn't really would you?

* 01 Neuer
* 03 Friedrich Yellow card
* 16 Lahm Captain
* 17 Mertesacker
* 20 Boateng
* 06 Khedira
* 07 Schweinsteiger
* 08 Ozil (Kiessling, 83)
* 10 Podolski
* 11 Klose (Gomez, 72)
* 13 Muller (Trochowski, 72)

England

* 01 James
* 02 G Johnson Yellow card (Wright-Phillips, 87)
* 03 A Cole
* 06 Terry
* 15 Upson
* 04 Gerrard Captain
* 08 Lampard
* 14 Barry
* 16 Milner (J Cole, 63)
* 10 Rooney
* 19 Defoe (Heskey, 71)

The only German players worth considering are Ozil, Podolski and Muller. They have 2 average center backs, 1 great full back ( A.Cole is even better) an average midfield and once again an average strike force. Difference is they play collectively.

What are you smoking, of those teams from England I'd take Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Cole, then one German CB, Lahm over Johnson whose god damned horrific defensively, Schweinsteiger, Pod, Muller, Ozil. Thats only because Terry is probably, with the right partner as good as the German CB's, theres 20 better CB's at the world cup alone to be honest, I'd take any Swiss CB, Senderos included over the Terry that played today. Held Spain, and went out of the last world cup without conceding a single goal till penalties in the knockout rounds, which is a fantastic achievement, England weren't close to that kind of defensive performance.

99% of unbiased people would take a majority German force if trying to make the best 11 out of both, I'd also as a manager drop Rooney and take Klose based on the fact that the german frontline/attack plays well together and Rooneys never played with them.

What you're mistaking with whose better is, who you know better because they play in the premier league because you watch it, and whose the bigger household name, two criteria that seem to have picked our squad for the past decade while failing miserably. Most of the German side was better than the England squad.

AS for complaining about 2-2 being a different game, it wouldn't have been, up till 2-1 the Germans were cruising, the goal came out of nowhere and they had an off 5-10 minutes, half time was the difference, not 2-1 or 2-2.

They have a manager capable of motivating or just effecting the players, they came out calm, collected and like the team right up till 2-1, they played the second half like all but 10 minutes of the first half.

The only thing that effected their game at all was the surprise of the England goal out of nowhere, the fact is at 2-2 they still would have had half time to calm down and get their heads back in the game and when they did that, they were simply so massively better than England they would have still won. England were NEVER in this game, ever, they weren't close, we were so outplayed in every position, in every situation, in every area of the pitch it was a joke.

Even worse, had Germany been desparate for a goal to win, they would not have brought on Heskey, nor SWP as a right back for the injured and useless JOhnson(personally it seemed like a "I really don't want to be out here anymore, lets fake an injury" injury to me but maybe I'm too cynical). They would have brought on quality players.

Its the wishful thinking when we beat some utter turd team at home 2-1 after going a goal down in qualifiers that makes people think the same team can continue to not improve but somehow win a cup, and its that same pathetic excuse making that somehow if that goal had been scored we'd have won the game, let alone the cup. Get over it, be realistic, the team was a complete shambles, even Ashley Cole was hung out to dry by the support around him from Gerrard as the missing left winger, to Barry the missing covering DM when required, to Upson the missing CB.
 
Yes... because 8th/16th is the same as 30/40 :o

When did I ever say or agree that they were around the 30/40 mark? The only comment I made regarding rank was saying they fit in around 8-16 depending on form. This would correspond to the last 16 - where they finished.

From your comments I imagine you never watch football outside of the Premiership and have very little idea of where the England players sit on a world scale. It isn't as pretty as you think. Ignorance leads to high expectations which leads to dissapointment.
 
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Well, OK then. Let's do it individually, just for you. Our wingers suck. Shaun W-P? Lennon? Walcott? Hardly setting the world on fire with their ability are they.

Our strikers... Defoe, Crouch and Heskey. Telling me that's the 2nd best strikeforce in the world? Ha!

Then there's Johnson in defence, Milner and Barry... these are the 2nd best players in the world in their position?

Come on, it's just ridiculous.

lol, you fail.

Lennon is a great attacking and dangerous winger on his day.

Defoe is one of the best finishers out there, he's a natural striker.

Walcott and SWP are terrible and that's why they don't start.

We only played Barry because Hargreaves isn't fit.

Wanna tell me how the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney and A.Cole are players without great ability?

Congratulations on naming our weakest players to justify your argument buy the way.
 
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