Soldato
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Fabregas' attitude is ****ing appalling on the pitch at times.
English League Football [26th Feb - 2nd Mar 2010] **spoilers**
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Soldato
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That wasn't two footed, and having seen the match I don't remember his other two for sure
Anyway, are you comparing a petty light tackle to the broken leg? They are two very different challenges lol! What does Cesc have to do with Shawcross anyway? I wasn't talking about him, but anyway, he at the same age as Shawcross hasn't put out 3 people for more than 3 weeks or more. Two of those times, it's very possible he was riled up earlier on in the game. He's either a very bad defender who it seems gets it wrong from time to time where he "happens" to leave his opponents seriously injured, or being that he's an international footballer perhaps there's a nasty streak to him.
The reasons are above, in short had it just been the one incident we'd have all moved on by now (as we did when Dan Smith tackled Diaby (a far worse tackle as it happens)). But it's something we've seen repeatedly over the years, and it's a consequence as said, of an overly physical style of play that's crossed the line. It's become increasinglyi fashionable to do this, so that's why there's more and more anger.
With the world cup arriving this summer and Shawcross being called up, I suppose it's a fair point to ask how much of the "shove it under the rug" attitude is a result of that. Years ago when an Argentinian broke Beckham's foot, the country had no such sympathy, found no such excuses and went far more mental, with fewer years of provocation compared to Arsenal fans.
neither was shawcross' challenge 2 footed.
if anything cesc's challenge is far worse, its purely malicious, no attempt for the ball, from behind.
thats some pair of rose tinted glasses you own
Man of Honour
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I never said it was two footed? You brought Cesc into it for some reason and claimed he made three during the match including the one in the video, which wasn't.
Soldato
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so what does 2 footed have anything to do with cesc challenge not being wreckless.
either way, the cesc challenge is malicous and worse than shawcross. shawcross made an honest attempt to go for the ball, studs UNraised, not even that late, and your calling it wreckless, or dangerous.
if i had to put a definition on a dangerous tackle, its lunging at a player from behind, with no attempt for the ball as your almost certainly going to go through the player.
cesc whilst one of the msot talented player ive watched, i think hes technically fantastic, however his attitude on the pitch is disgusting at times, that tackle was 1 of the many incidents he can be judged for.
its double standards from arsenal fans, because
a) you play the beautiful game and dont agree with the physical approach, which is just stupid. Stoke are by no means a Sam Allardyce team.
b) its your player thats been injured. so your out for blood.
either way, the cesc challenge is malicous and worse than shawcross. shawcross made an honest attempt to go for the ball, studs UNraised, not even that late, and your calling it wreckless, or dangerous.
if i had to put a definition on a dangerous tackle, its lunging at a player from behind, with no attempt for the ball as your almost certainly going to go through the player.
cesc whilst one of the msot talented player ive watched, i think hes technically fantastic, however his attitude on the pitch is disgusting at times, that tackle was 1 of the many incidents he can be judged for.
its double standards from arsenal fans, because
a) you play the beautiful game and dont agree with the physical approach, which is just stupid. Stoke are by no means a Sam Allardyce team.
b) its your player thats been injured. so your out for blood.
Man of Honour
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Wrong, when it's done fairly Arsenal have no problem with the physical approach. Even when our players get injured as a result (e.g. Cesc from Carragher last season). It's nothing personal whatsoever against Stoke, but more the anti-football message which has time and time again gone too far.
No, we're angry about the whole attitude that deems acceptable a style of play that results in some players going way beyond what's fairly physical and fouls.
Soldato
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see this is what gets me, define fairly physical? no diving in? because thats all he done, it wasnt overly late, or boot raised, so please define exactly what was overly done about the tackle?
It was Alonso
I still don't get why some of the Arsenal fans are having a pop at Shawcross. He made a geuine attempt to win the ball in a 50-50 tackle which Ramsey won and unfortunately came off with a serious injury. Shawcross didn't jump into the tackle, he didn't go in 2 footed nor were his studs raised.
The injury was simply bad luck and Shawcross can count himself unlucky to have been sent off. Had Ramsey not got injured then nobody would have mentioned the tackle.
Caporegime
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Speaking of hypocrits, it's amazing what "great footballing" players can get away with isn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJRlGKUM4Es
Only his 3rd two-footed lunge from behind in 90 minutes though...so obviously he didn't get a carded or even cautioned.
WEll lets see, it was yet another game where multiple players had done that too him throughout, he infact was fouled fairly badly about a minute before that, ontop of the fact that a Stoke player broke a guys leg, right infront of him, and its the second time thats happened.
It wasn't two footed, he made no other two footed lunges, the only way its two footed, is in that he has two feet. It also wasn't a lunge, he slid in and clipped the heels to trip him and that was by far his worst challenge of the game, after being hacked countless times throughout.
It was Alonso
I still don't get why some of the Arsenal fans are having a pop at Shawcross. He made a geuine attempt to win the ball in a 50-50 tackle which Ramsey won and unfortunately came off with a serious injury. Shawcross didn't jump into the tackle, he didn't go in 2 footed nor were his studs raised.
The injury was simply bad luck and Shawcross can count himself unlucky to have been sent off. Had Ramsey not got injured then nobody would have mentioned the tackle.
Not jumping, not going two footed, doesn't mean its not a foul. Serious foul play, or late tackles are always subject to discipline, pretending otherwise is just being a pain in the behind. Two footed challenges, and jumping in are supposed to be AUTOMATICALLY punished because of the danger of them, that doesn't somehow make any other kind of tackle fine, it simply means those two tackles are almost exclusively always dangerous as hell and will never be tolerated, that has entirely no bearing on if any other tackle not involving two feet or a jump is legal.
It WAS a bad tackle, simply with no intent, thats still a foul. Theres not a single mention in any rule book that you can't get a red card unless there is intent, because the rule doesn't exist, its a stupid idea that gets thrown around when people want to play down a tackle or decision.
It was late, how do I know, because, he got there after the ball went, if that was 0.000002seconds or 20 minutes, both are late. Ones more understandable, one obviously wouldn't be. Simple fact is the direction, intensity of the swing of his leg, the position of his leg, the obvious position Ramsey's leg will be in by the time he gets there, it was ALWAYS going to be dangerous.
Even if he got the ball first, Ramsey's foot was always going to be planted and Shawcross was always going to kick through him, it was completely and utterly reckless. He went in far to aggressively with a ridiculously high chance of basically kicking seven shades of crap out of Ramsey's leg, the only question was would he get very lucky and get a glancing blow(unlikely from the angle of his leg) or that Ramsey's leg wouldn't be planted and he might not break it. Without his leg breaking, in a lucky situation it would still have been a red card.
wow arsenal fans are acting like pure tools yet again. Its funny how most netural fans see it as it is a freak accident. When you will be satisfied? When you get every fan in england to agree with you? or until you ruin the young lads career
Its just arse fans yet again thinking there superior (snigger) samba football is too much to handle for us "unfashionable teams" and them bleeting and crying about it all the time.
Im totally bored of it. We are here to stay like it or lump it.
Your fans have no grace your manager has no grace and your players have no grace.
P.S get well soon Rambo from everyone at stoke,
Its just arse fans yet again thinking there superior (snigger) samba football is too much to handle for us "unfashionable teams" and them bleeting and crying about it all the time.
Im totally bored of it. We are here to stay like it or lump it.
Your fans have no grace your manager has no grace and your players have no grace.
P.S get well soon Rambo from everyone at stoke,
Soldato
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so if it isnt 2 footed, and it isn't that late' and his studs are not raised' and he hasnt come in from behind. how can this be defined anything but just an honest tackle thats turned otu badly, it wasnt a bad challenge. it was just an unlucky situation. it happens in contact sprots. it was a bad outcome, it wasnt a bad challenge. a yellow purely for the fraction he was late if the leg hadnt broken. but people are diving on the challenge like it was a 2 footed drop kick to the face.
Soldato
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To be honest you make yourself sound like a tool by branding us all with your insults. Maybe you should focus your insults on those that you are talking to rather than attacking all Arsenal fans
So much grace in your post
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Soldato
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To be honest you make yourself sound like a tool by branding us all with your insults. Maybe you should focus your insults on those that you are talking to rather than attacking all Arsenal fans
So much grace in your post
He has got a point. Arsenal fans and the club in general have developed a "Holier Than Thou" complex.
What? Fletcher is a pussy-cat.
Vidic and Ferdinand are in a different league when it comes to being 'dirty'.
Oh, and just to chime in on this: just because there's a few vocal Arsenal fans arguing the toss, it doesn't mean the rest of us agree with them so stop using it (yes I'm talking to you Stoke1863!) as justification to reinforce your stupid prejudices against another club's fanbase.
My personal opinion: It's just bloody unlucky. Shawcross isn't/wasn't dirty but you could possibly see the intent as he was riled earlier in the game but I believe you'd be hard-pushed to reason it was deliberate. On this occassion, it's was bad luck, on other occassions it's because clubs have hacked Arsenal to death. In some games we've been bullied to the point I was actually fearing a serious injury (re: Bolton x2) but thankfully such things never materialised.
Far worse tackles go on all the time and most of the time, it's a toss of the coin if there's an injury or not. I don't think Stoke on this occassion were out to hurt/bully Arsenal off the field. There has however, been occassions where teams definitely do this and this is where that particular argument comes from. And I'm not playing the victim card here either; I've seen the same teams, names and faces do it to others because they think it's actually part of the game.
Arsenal don't need protecting, but there are certain players in the game who definitely need to reign it in a little because it's not sportsmanship when you set out to hurt another player. I would like referees to be a little harsher across the board. In some games, the tempo can make it seem 'dangerous' but the game is nothing of the sort; in fact, those games are very entertaining and a referee interfering all the time would ruin the game-play. But, there are certainly games where things are beginning to get out of hand (we've all seen it) and referees should not be afraid to put their foot down; it's what they're there for afterall.
STFU. Okay?
Vidic and Ferdinand are in a different league when it comes to being 'dirty'.
Oh, and just to chime in on this: just because there's a few vocal Arsenal fans arguing the toss, it doesn't mean the rest of us agree with them so stop using it (yes I'm talking to you Stoke1863!) as justification to reinforce your stupid prejudices against another club's fanbase.
My personal opinion: It's just bloody unlucky. Shawcross isn't/wasn't dirty but you could possibly see the intent as he was riled earlier in the game but I believe you'd be hard-pushed to reason it was deliberate. On this occassion, it's was bad luck, on other occassions it's because clubs have hacked Arsenal to death. In some games we've been bullied to the point I was actually fearing a serious injury (re: Bolton x2) but thankfully such things never materialised.
Far worse tackles go on all the time and most of the time, it's a toss of the coin if there's an injury or not. I don't think Stoke on this occassion were out to hurt/bully Arsenal off the field. There has however, been occassions where teams definitely do this and this is where that particular argument comes from. And I'm not playing the victim card here either; I've seen the same teams, names and faces do it to others because they think it's actually part of the game.
Arsenal don't need protecting, but there are certain players in the game who definitely need to reign it in a little because it's not sportsmanship when you set out to hurt another player. I would like referees to be a little harsher across the board. In some games, the tempo can make it seem 'dangerous' but the game is nothing of the sort; in fact, those games are very entertaining and a referee interfering all the time would ruin the game-play. But, there are certainly games where things are beginning to get out of hand (we've all seen it) and referees should not be afraid to put their foot down; it's what they're there for afterall.
STFU. Okay?
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Soldato
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point proven
Not really, I'm just sick of complete morons spouting utter nonsense. However, you are kindly proving my own point once again, so kudos for that.