English League Football ** spoilers ** [24th - 28th September 2010]

Tom84 said:
Well that's balls

Fergie is always talking about not wanting to leave United without having good foundations in place for the next manager

Regardless of that Fabregas will be gone next summer so what exactly is Wenger doing that will help the next manager out? All the experience players will not only be older than they are now but will also be more than likely wanting to leave for somewhere that will actually win trophies and the younger players like Wilshire who's to say if they'll even make it at the top level?
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Er, eh? He's not far off of it now? He is already bossing games in the midfield that he has no right to.

Any manager coming in after Wenger will inherit a financially sound club with a new stadium and a wealth of young talent. I'm not saying that also won't be the case at ManU when Fergie goes but to not see what Wenger is doing is very short-sighted.
 
Tom84 said:
Well that's balls

Fergie is always talking about not wanting to leave United without having good foundations in place for the next manager

Regardless of that Fabregas will be gone next summer so what exactly is Wenger doing that will help the next manager out? All the experience players will not only be older than they are now but will also be more than likely wanting to leave for somewhere that will actually win trophies and the younger players like Wilshire who's to say if they'll even make it at the top level?
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Yes I see Man Utd really have an excellent youth academy and are building for the future with their current first team. Not to mention the very impressive profits they've been posting of recent years. :)
 
LOL look at you 3 getting all shirty :D

As for your points

1- The debt free part has nothing to do with Wenger, he doesn't own the shares to the club. You're making it sound like he's a god for not spending money when it's not there to be spent - Newsflash the same can be said for any manager who's club is not privately owned and lets face it that wont be the case with a club like Arsenal for too many more years

2- The much highlighted youth system that has produced how many world class players? Two at the most one who's since left the other who would have without a doubt made it had he stayed at Barcelona anyway. Regarding Wilshire yes he looks a talent but lets face it if you believed you lot Bentley was the next Bergkamp, not saying Wilshire will fail to that extent but lets calm down a little when it comes to him shall we?

Dont get me wrong this isn't me knocking Wenger's tenure (he did great with the likes of Henry) just what he's done in the last 5 years

EDIT: Look at you 4 getting all shirty :)
 
It's what happens when you see awful posts. Be honest, you get all your views on Arsenal from reading The Sun yes?
 
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I'm quite sure you aren't allowed to link to streams, so I'd remove that link (as he's seen it now anyway) just incase :)
 
The point is Wenger has not just 'managed to not spend money which isn't there', but while doing so has managed to without exception get Arsenal into the Champions League, have good Cup runs and been pushing for the title, all of which generates additional revenue and making profits in the transfer windows.

Obviously it's easy to spend money that isn't there, it's not so easy keeping your club competitive season and season while doing so.
 
Hmmm if Johnny Evans plays as badly as he has been, I'm gonna slit my wrists and cry as we get pumped by a pretty average Valencia side.
 
Tom84 said:
1- The debt free part has nothing to do with Wenger, he doesn't own the shares to the club. You're making it sound like he's a god for not spending money when it's not there to be spent - Newsflash the same can be said for any manager who's club is not privately owned and lets face it that wont be the case with a club like Arsenal for too many more years
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I'm pretty sure not paying over the odds for players, and selling some of them on for tasty profits has helped our balance book immensely actually.

Just buying players isn't the only way to cripple the books, and Wenger should be commended for having the foresight not to overdo the spending at any point.

EDIT: And yes, as Rich said, maintaining a competitive position whilst doing so is the key. We're nowhere near the top of the net spenders every season, and yet we've managed to finish top four every time. Sorry if you don't consider that commendable.

2- The much highlighted youth system that has produced how many world class players? Two at the most one who's since left the other who would have without a doubt made it had he stayed at Barcelona anyway. Regarding Wilshire yes he looks a talent but lets face it if you believed you lot Bentley was the next Bergkamp, not saying Wilshire will fail to that extent but lets calm down a little when it comes to him shall we?
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Oh, I see, we have to judge a youth set-up on your specially constructed "How many awesome Spanish players has it given us?" criteria, rather than how much money it generates for the club, how many technically-capable players its produced (regardless of "world class" ability), or how our academy is viewed by other clubs in the country, do we? Or can we only be considered good if we wave the magical Barcelona wand and produce awesome player after awesome player?
 
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Weebull said:
I'm pretty sure not paying over the odds for players, and selling some of them on for tasty profits has helped our balance book immensely actually.

Just buying players isn't the only way to cripple the books, and Wenger should be commended for having the foresight not to overdo the spending at any point.
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Again Wenger shouldn't be commended at all all he's done is not spent money that's not available it's no rocket science If I go into Tesco with nothing but a fiver on me I cant go and buy something that's a tenner.

If anyone is to be commended on the clubs finances it's your board!

Weebull said:
EDIT: And yes, as Rich said, maintaining a competitive position whilst doing so is the key. We're nowhere near the top of the net spenders every season, and yet we've managed to finish top four every time. Sorry if you don't consider that commendable.
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You get a trophy for finishing 4th do you? Like I said no other 'big' club in the world would allow a manager to go 5 years without winning anything. So if the Arsenal fans, the club itself and the manager are happy with just finishing in the top 4 every season then you're not a big club - FAR from it

Weebull said:
Oh, I see, we have to judge a youth set-up on your specially constructed "How many awesome Spanish players has it given us?" criteria, rather than how much money it generates for the club, how many technically-capable players its produced (regardless of "world class" ability), or how our academy is viewed by other clubs in the country, do we? Or can we only be considered good if we wave the magical Barcelona wand and produce awesome player after awesome player?
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Man Utd have also produced numerous Premier League players over the last 5-10 years do we get commended for it? No because regardless of whether they're good enough at Premier League level if they're not good enough for your team no one remembers where they started off. As far as I'm concerned this magical Arsenal academy has at best created 3 players so far that have been good enough to play for Arsenal week in week out - Cole, Fabregas and Clichy. Wilshire & Gibbs look promising but who knows what the future holds for either at this point
 
You think Arsenal are happy not winning things? Maybe Arsenal fans and the club realise the recent limitations and are taking it into account? It seems that you choose to ignore anything that happens outside the confines of the lines on a pitch which is a rather simplistic view and doesn't take into account any real life factors.

In Arsenal's current situation, it's a massive achievement for Wenger to have kept Arsenal competitive while effectively being a selling club and not being able to compete for the best players. That's the pleasing thing, nobody is celebrating not winning trophies, it's just an unfortunate off-shoot of spending £300m on a stadium instead of £300m on players like Chelsea

Winning a trophy does not ultimately decide the success of a club, look at Chelsea, an absolute state of a football club, it's not all OK just because they won a trophy.
 
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Again Wenger shouldn't be commended at all all he's done is not spent money that's not available it's no rocket science If I go into Tesco with nothing but a fiver on me I cant go and buy something that's a tenner.

If anyone is to be commended on the clubs finances it's your board!
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To use your analogy, you would be going to Tesco with a fiver, and coming out with a bottle of champagne and a fillet steak worth 20 quid bought on special offers, while other people are paying full price (or double, if you're Man City :p )

It's a long-term game plan, as has been stated a number of times and in the next few years it will be interesting to see what happens - in the last few years while clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool are putting a significant amount of their operating revenue towards just servicing the interest payments, Arsenal have paid off a huge amount of their debt and are well on the way towards being completely debt-free.

I'm fairly sure that Wenger has been quoted saying that football is about winning things *and* balancing the books, and by all accounts he is more than just a 'football' manager but a proper club manager.

*edit*

Have you noticed that Ferguson is now starting to trot out the same lines as Wenger has been saying over the past few years? "We don't need any new signings", "I'm happy with the team as it is", "I have faith in the young players coming through" - in other words there's no money to spend in the North-West...
 
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The problem is Wenger has been talking about this long term project stuff and how this is their year jazz for a couple of years now and to me the only thing that is getting ever nearer is your best player leaving and setting you back another couple of years.

Long story short I don't think it's totally unreasonable that some arsenal fans want wenger out.
 
Rich_L said:
Have you noticed that Ferguson is now starting to trot out the same lines as Wenger has been saying over the past few years? "We don't need any new signings", "I'm happy with the team as it is", "I have faith in the young players coming through" - in other words there's no money to spend in the North-West...
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Actually I think more worryingly....he actually believes those things.
 
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