I'm not surprised. Many companies are pushing this agenda and its been passed on to the schools.
I am 100% for diversity but getting people in just to meet a "feel good" quota and not skills. Thats where I have the problem.
Entitlement what can we do about it.
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I'm not surprised. Many companies are pushing this agenda and its been passed on to the schools.
I am 100% for diversity but getting people in just to meet a "feel good" quota and not skills. Thats where I have the problem.
I agree that a degree isn't necessary for everything.I never bothered with uni because it wasn't required for what I wanted do as an job and I work in one of the STEM fields. Unless you want to be a Doctor or something very practical. You have the power of the internet to educate yourself.
Funny sitting in an office with my no degree self earning more than people with their degrees in Zoology, Geology and Sociology.In debt for a degree they will never use.
The question remains though, as a society do we not want people to do degrees? Do we not want people to educate themselves further, in ways that enrich society that isn't as simple as STEM? A Zoology degree - to take one of your examples although it can easily apply to the rest you've named - teaches science, research, data, analysis, and behavioural skills. These sorts of things are vital to a well rounded society, and yes the named subject could be anything, but taking zoology specifically studying animals and their ecosystems is vital to our understanding of our world. Why would we not want that? As a supposedly educated and enlightened society?
I'd argue that those doing more STEM based degrees that end up going into banking and investment banking to join the ever churning mill of money making are providing far less value to the human race, especially those that end up creating misery in the pursuit of ever more sums of imaginary money propping up a failed capitalistic pursuit of wealth.
Why is it a problem for them to ask why there aren't more women?
Because it shows that they have no interest in what's actually important, i.e. the business.
It's a perfectly valid question; "If a business has no interest in supporting women why would I want to work there"? And to me - depending on context - it demonstrates critical thinking.
It's a double edged sword isn't it? Having been heavily involved in recruitment, and being lucky enough that I'm a specialist in my field and my skills and abilities are in demand, I can choose exactly where I want to work. If the only question someone asked me was why aren't there more women, I'd agree it wouldn't show enough interest in what the company does, but we weren't really given enough information to draw that conclusion so in isolation I think its a perfectly valid question. As a recruiter, I want someone who demonstrates interest in the business and the role, but I'd also be intrigued if someone had the sense to question something outside the straight and narrow - it shows a certain level of intelligence to me.
As an employee, I don't want to work for a company that doesn't give a stuff about its workforce. Businesses need to remember that they need employees just as much as people need jobs, and a job contract is a 2 way thing.
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An interviewee who asked why there weren't more women in the firm would ring alarm bells, in regard to them being a potential troublemaker. They would be off the list before they left their chair, if it was my company. I wouldn't be questioned over my recruitment policies by someone in a job interview.
Yes, definitely we need people educate themselves further and earn degrees but its when companies or people use it as an artificial requirement for jobs which don't need it.
When the price of degrees go up every few years then its not about people educating themselves further to better society but making money. Then you get a whole bunch of degrees which don't make sense, only to get students in the door, pay and up end with debt with nothing to show for it.
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Soldato
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The year I wanted to go to Uni was the year they changed prices. Literally missed it, fees tripples over night.
I really loved that year, it really was motivating
I really loved that year, it really was motivating
Its crazy, when I looked at going to uni it was 3K back in the early 2000's. Now you need to take out a mortgage.The year I wanted to go to Uni was the year they changed prices. Literally missed it, fees tripples over night.
I really loved that year, it really was motivating
You have other places in Europe offering just as good degrees for way less.
in most of Europe it is either free or in the region of 200-400 euros a semester/year.
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Which makes it odd that so many many foreign students elect to come here. But of course if they never go back again and just disappear violating their temporary visas, as has been criticised by the government just recently...
I was one of the last to get in at just over £1000/year. I don't think I would even consider it now at current prices. I'm astounded that a huge number of universities haven't closed. There are so many mickey mouse degrees that will never yield a better job as a result and you come out with £40k+ of debt. Madness.
See, I get this - from your perspective this might be acceptable. You're looking for the few, and willing to pay high wages to attract them. But, what about everyone else? If anything this makes the whole entitlement thing worse - because a select few are achieving these unrealistic, mostly unattainable starting salaries.
Most people don't start on six figures. Many won't ever get to six figures in their lifetimes.
Of course there is always more entitlement in every generation.. I thought that is how it works, My grandparents thought we had it easy and asked for too much.
These days there are more ways to express your entitlement and so this amplifies the normal generational increase in entitlement and hey presto.. we have this thread.
For the record, I have no issues, they can bleat and moan about wages like everyone before them has done, its the market that will decide and I'm fine with that. I pay very junior people a really good starting salary for our industry/area and despite it being more (inflation adjusted) than I started on, so what, we need good people, they are good people.. problem solved.
However, on the entitlement front, I will say that for juniors in my department, there are a disproportionate amount of entitled behaviour from them.. one started his own 'side hustle', advertising on linkedin, facebook etc, and thought he we should allow him to use company resources (time, software etc) as he felt that overlapped with his day job, and got quite angry about it when I had to politely explain things. Another kept asking for pay rises 'because all my friends earn more'.. his friends were project managers that attract higher salaries.. I was a bit taken aback, I told him we operate a meritocracy, so as he gained and demonstrated more experience we'd look after him.. Which we did, he increased his pay by 30% in 2 years with two merit rises.. ironically he then left anyway (no surprise) as he found somewhere offering the same pay for less work.. He still talks to his ex-colleagues and already he's moaning it's even worse and he will have to wait 2 years to get a small merit rise of 5% on top of the normal inflationary/company wide pay rises and that's only if he does well at his performance review..
I agree on the Uni front.. what I find appauling is Uni's exploiting it crazily.. Plymouth Uni for example (I did my degree there) has spent millions on a visitors centre and student accomodation blocks.. I was helping someone apply for a course there and the way they tried to get them in debt was sickening.. they sneakily try to push them hard to be in halls of residence at £800 a month, they explain how much more they can get for 'computer suppliers' and list iPhones and iPads and all the 'tech' stuff as examples of what to spend the money on, and the massive (and expensive) visitors centre is all about trying to hook people in and then hammer them for every penny, I was there when they inferred not to worry about the debt, might as well take as much 'free money' as they can as they only needed to pay it off if they got a really well paid job anyway and then they'd not even notice it.. yada yada yada, it was like walking in to brighthouse and getting 30% APR credit thrown at you to buy an overpriced TV..
These days there are more ways to express your entitlement and so this amplifies the normal generational increase in entitlement and hey presto.. we have this thread.
For the record, I have no issues, they can bleat and moan about wages like everyone before them has done, its the market that will decide and I'm fine with that. I pay very junior people a really good starting salary for our industry/area and despite it being more (inflation adjusted) than I started on, so what, we need good people, they are good people.. problem solved.
However, on the entitlement front, I will say that for juniors in my department, there are a disproportionate amount of entitled behaviour from them.. one started his own 'side hustle', advertising on linkedin, facebook etc, and thought he we should allow him to use company resources (time, software etc) as he felt that overlapped with his day job, and got quite angry about it when I had to politely explain things. Another kept asking for pay rises 'because all my friends earn more'.. his friends were project managers that attract higher salaries.. I was a bit taken aback, I told him we operate a meritocracy, so as he gained and demonstrated more experience we'd look after him.. Which we did, he increased his pay by 30% in 2 years with two merit rises.. ironically he then left anyway (no surprise) as he found somewhere offering the same pay for less work.. He still talks to his ex-colleagues and already he's moaning it's even worse and he will have to wait 2 years to get a small merit rise of 5% on top of the normal inflationary/company wide pay rises and that's only if he does well at his performance review..
I agree on the Uni front.. what I find appauling is Uni's exploiting it crazily.. Plymouth Uni for example (I did my degree there) has spent millions on a visitors centre and student accomodation blocks.. I was helping someone apply for a course there and the way they tried to get them in debt was sickening.. they sneakily try to push them hard to be in halls of residence at £800 a month, they explain how much more they can get for 'computer suppliers' and list iPhones and iPads and all the 'tech' stuff as examples of what to spend the money on, and the massive (and expensive) visitors centre is all about trying to hook people in and then hammer them for every penny, I was there when they inferred not to worry about the debt, might as well take as much 'free money' as they can as they only needed to pay it off if they got a really well paid job anyway and then they'd not even notice it.. yada yada yada, it was like walking in to brighthouse and getting 30% APR credit thrown at you to buy an overpriced TV..
And it lowers the skill floor for the whole department/company if you try to fill diversity quotas than purely by ability
If a white guy is the best for the job, I don't care if a gender fluid mixed race disabled lesbian in a wheelchair applied, I'm going for the white guy and vice-versa
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I wished more people took your stance, because the SJW's would lose there SJWness in an instant to get on the career ladder and the world would benefit
Yeah, I think here in Switzerland its around 1000CHF which around £900. I would have moved here years ago if I knew it was so cheap!
That's where England has the upper hand. Foreign students go to the England not only to get their degree but they get the added bonus of improving their English, that's their driving factor. And they want to learn the "Queens English", not American English they hear most of the time on TV.
The government knows this and they make a killing off foreign students. So once they get the money, they don't care what the foreign students do after.
Exactly this...
I've conducted probably 300+ interviews for senior management roles in a FTSE 100 company during my time; and have now done so several times for my own small company.
I would view a candidate asking any kind of potentially challenging or uncomfortable question as a very good thing; and this question in particular would serve them well.
I suppose I can understand people's reservations about being asked that sort of question if you're interviewing for a low level position in a tiny company, but for senior management or regional director level roles, or if you're identifying graduates for potential fast-tracking, then you absolutely want people to show that they're prepared to be critical of current practices, challenge the status quo, and be able to identify opportunities.
For those sorts of roles the absolute last thing you want to be doing is filling the position with a drone who just wants to go along with the flow. Anyone interviewing at that level should be well aware that diverse workforces produce significantly better results by pretty much every metric, and if they're going to be taking on a leadership role that puts them at the helm of 300+ other employees, then these are things that they absolutely should be considering.
I want to hire people who can do their job better than me, so if they're incapable of being critical of the business or it's current operation, or are not able to indicate as such in their interview, then why would I want to hire them?
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Soldato
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Allies? Do they think your work place is Call of Duty or something?