Entitlement what can we do about it.

Nitefly said:
I think ‘over entitlement’ needs to go in hand with ‘lack of empathy’ on the other side.

For example, it is aggressively more difficult for young persons to buy a house in recent times because of the amount of capital needed to make the deposit - house prices have risen higher than many people can be reasonably expected to save.

The asking price my own house has risen 20% (well over £100k) in 18 months. Similar % increases are seen at the lower end of the spectrum (in Bristol). If I were in the same circumstances now, I could no longer have afforded to buy my first home that I bought 7 years ago.

Saying “everyone should stop spending any money, save everything and move somewhere different away from your current life” is a little silly.

I make this point only because I felt the rhetoric in the mortgage thread of “young people are borrowing too much money - it’s their own fault” was unfair.

Temperance and empathy are needed from everyone - not just the younger generation.
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Great post.

The simple fact that on average a single salary is rarely enough to buy a house now should attest to the imbalance in the mortgage market, not to mention that those who extract the most from the market set and encourage decades old policy of propping up an atrocious housing market, but sure let’s blame the young for borrowing too much.
 
dowie said:
I'd disagree with that, your exception is some vague description of a friend going into seemingly a very niche area, that is inherently risky without considering alternative plans and doesn't require a crystal ball to see that, especially if the undergrad was a specialist one too. It is unfortunate but there are perhaps far more people making more obvious bad decisions out there too*.

A solid degree in any subject from a top university has generally always been a good bet and still is today. A useful subject at a broader range of universities is also a good bet.

If it was a specialist undergrad then that's unfortunate and they're often unnecessary especially if pursuing a PhD afterwards.

*Studying say International Trading and Finance at the University of Scunthorpe in the hope of landing a front office role in a big bank in London is probably a bad idea when the actual grad intake ends up being say; "Engineering - Cambridge", "Maths & Economics - Warwick", "Classics - Oxford"... and even the guy who studied classics still has A* @ Maths A-level and performs better when solving problems at interview than the guy who allegedly spent 3 years studying for a "BSc" but still remains borderline innumerate.
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I found Languages the hardest degree compared to Economics or Finance. Up to this day, I regret studying for a language degree, yes, I did end up with top A-level grades in my languages. During my degree, I did not work as hard and took my base Knowledge as a given, never attending classes just sat my midterms and finals exams. If I received Bs, during the course of my A levels, I would have worked harder at my degree. After, getting top A-level grades I became very lazy.
 
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LabR@t said:
Look no one made you go to university and get in debt, it was you're choice. Maybe it was a good move maybe in wasn't but it was a choice.
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I haven't been to uni, nor am I complaining about my salary. I was simply pointing out that even people my age had it so much easier when going to uni it's not even funny.

People in their mid forties and older had it even easier, along with the peanut costs to get on the property ladder.

This thread is wonderfully ironic, with you feeling entitled enough to make a thread to judge others against the lens of your own life.
 
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montymint said:
I haven't been to uni, for am I complaining about my salary. I was simply pointing out that even people my age had it so much easier when going to uni it's not even funny.

People in their mid forties and older had it even easier, along with the peanut costs to get on the property ladder.

This thread is wonderfully ironic, with you feeling entitled enough to make a thread to judge others against the lens of your own life.
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LabR@t said:
Look no one made you go to university and get in debt, it was you're choice. Maybe it was a good move maybe in wasn't but it was a choice.
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Going to university benefits our society in many ways, research, medicine, technology, transfer of Knowledge etc.. the cost should be shared by the population. Everyone should have the opportunity, to go (if they have the ability). Those that do go to university end up paying more taxes in the long run, enough to cover the costs of university education.

The argument can be applied to many areas of our society, why should I pay more taxes if I do not use the services?
 
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Mrwong said:
Going to university benefits our society in many ways, research, medicine, technology, transfer of Knowledge etc.. the cost should be shared by the population. Everyone should have the opportunity, to go (if they have the ability). Those that do go to university end up paying more taxes in the long run, enough to cover the costs of university education.

The argument can be applied to many areas of our society, why should I pay more taxes if I do not use the services?
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I agree, and a free, high quality education is one thing I do believe young people should be entitled to, as like you say, it benefits everyone in society.

My student loan was ~£10k, and it was a huge relief to finally pay it off last year, so I can certainly sympathise with those who have 3-4x that
 
Universities are just a cash cow business model especially when they do anything to attract international students.

Many reading lists are public, there are vast learning resources available these days that education should not be gated in such a way.

Couple that with lecturers who don't actually want to lecture, tenured professors who are lazy as hell etc. Undergraduate degrees as an adult are a poor proposition for learning and all about the certificate. The same is true for 18-21 year olds but they have the benefit of it being an "extension" of school.

I would like to see the whole higher education system turned on its head. For example an Artificial Intelligence university that tailor makes lectures and exams for students. Even today's A.I. would do a better job of reading people's dissertations that are usually just skim read.

To address the OP it all comes down to how much value, how they can impact the bottom line. Most new starts at a company are not a net positive to the company until some time - graduates even less so. Starting salary is just a negotiation game about when that employee starts making the business money.
 
Mrwong said:
Going to university benefits our society in many ways, research, medicine, technology, transfer of Knowledge etc.. the cost should be shared by the population. Everyone should have the opportunity, to go (if they have the ability). Those that do go to university end up paying more taxes in the long run, enough to cover the costs of university education.

The argument can be applied to many areas of our society, why should I pay more taxes if I do not use the services?
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Totally agree, just get rid of the mickey mouse degrees and fund via taxation the genuinely gifted to maximise their potential. Apprenticeships and other training for those not going to university, these would typically be funded by companies via grants etc
 
LabR@t said:
Totally agree, just get rid of the mickey mouse degrees and fund via taxation the genuinely gifted to maximise their potential. Apprenticeships and other training for those not going to university, these would typically be funded by companies via grants etc
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I agree functional degrees that have a benefit to our community should be free.
Others should be pay only.
It Is the person choice to select the route.
 
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I never bothered with uni because it wasn't required for what I wanted do as an job and I work in one of the STEM fields. Unless you want to be a Doctor or something very practical. You have the power of the internet to educate yourself.

Funny sitting in an office with my no degree self earning more than people with their degrees in Zoology, Geology and Sociology. :rolleyes: In debt for a degree they will never use.
 
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malachi said:
I never bothered with uni because it wasn't required for what I wanted do as an job and I work in one of the STEM fields. Unless you want to be a Doctor or something very practical. You have the power of the internet to educate yourself.

Funny sitting in an office with my no degree self earning more than people with their degrees in Zoology, Geology and Sociology. :rolleyes: In debt for a degree they will never use.
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Degree discloses hidden information about the person. Our group, for example only hires candidates from state schools who have studied at top-ranking universities and not from public schools. Yes, a crazy algo we have, but it seems to work very well.
 
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Do what she does.

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We offer our graduates XXX,XXX CHFand depending on their stream will rotate them around and give them a metric ton of experience. If you are good we will always keep you as an analyst....

We are extremely demanding though. I've noticed that definitely some have attitudes and it's definitely creeping in more....but for now manageable as we just remove those that don't fit the ethos.

Last week however we got some school people in to show them around. One person wanted to know why there were not more women....and the other wanted to know how we supported allies..... we were gobsmacked that was their take away. Quite depressing really. Two of them however were really intrigued asked right questions, great appetite etc. I will hopefully find them internship roles at some point. (Better not mention salary or some people would throw a fit lol).

So yeah it's definitely a growing problem.
 
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My boomer father never worked (1960) bummed off dole and money they got for kids, my Gen X mother never let us out of the house (1967) and bummed off the benefit system yet both would smash us up for doing things they considered wrong and abused us.

Interestingly though is how the OP and some paint all people younger than themselves with the same brush, not much gets through anymore as intelligent debate though as the common denominator is the mass of mediocre minds.

My parents were entitled to their life, we came beneath their shoe. They are not intelligent people.

For myself the entitlement is with the older generations but ignorance of all generations too, people such as myself who were truly hard done by but don't wear it on their sleeve are unseen in this world where if you say something, no one owes you anything and if you try to make it out of a situation and put those behind you, they will side with those who deal the pain, they cannot and will not ever understand anyone elses point of view, empathy and putting the shoes that someone else walks in on their own feet is a very hard thing for them to do, yes my father is the definition of a narcissist and my mother is the perfect candidate as she was abused by her parents.. cycle of abuse.

There is a reason this song still sits deeply with millennials.



The only thing I can claim for myself is being brave, determined and hard working, but I am not monetarily successful, my being is not knitted into materialism.
I served for my country, I helped people in my life, I never slumped against the enemy and never will.

But people like me don't exist, we are not the loud mouths out there.

iu



iu



seeken.org

6 Habits of Mediocre People (Average People) - SeeKen

Understand that Mediocre behavior is a choice and you also has a choice to say NO to the Habits of Mediocre People. Hence always work hard put extra efforts towards achieving your goals and dream. You have that potential and capability hard work is in your DNA, and no one can take that from you...
seeken.org seeken.org

iu







Why these two artists? One killed himself after his ordeal of abuse, but expressed his pain and anguish through music, he helped people.
Eminem is similar, not the same, but helped people, all of us share the same trauma and high velocity rage underneath us that no one wants to poke.

The point is hammered home way harder for us that most people are full of crap and see into the depths of people very easily.

This song, all in the lyrics.

 
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Mrwong said:
I agree functional degrees that have a benefit to our community should be free.
Others should be pay only.
It Is the person choice to select the route.
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I would ask you to define a "functional" degree...

A lot of the "nonsense" degrees do have an actual use, although it may be in a fairly small area, and most of the more commonly decried ones such as "arts" and "media studies" etc are extremely commonly used:) And even if they don't lead to a job that actively uses that area of your degree, the process of getting one usually trains you how to think, research and do your work to a schedule, all of which are very important in many areas of employment (which is one of the things a degree shows, that you can apply yourself and do that).
I remember not long ago some tory politician was calling to get rid of the "soft degrees" like "the arts"* or downgrading the funding for universities that did a lot of them (especially music**)and people were pointing out all the areas of his presentation/speech that actively required someone with qualifications in the arts to make it available to the public (everything from the typeset used, to the colours, to the layout, then the set design, actual writing of the speech, the design of his clothing etc).

Even the most stupid sounding degree usually has something "useful" once you actually look past the Sun headlines, or some comment by a politician who has realised it's an easy bash against "soft" degrees. Even going back a few years to when there was a uni offering a "degree in the spice girls" or something, which sounds utterly stupid, until you remember the effect they had on music for a few years and that understanding what made them popular, and the context was both going to be important to historians in the future and music making and marketing in the near term. IIRC I've also seen headlines about "stupid degrees" based on video games, except that if you have a deep understanding of what made a game popular you have information that's useful when making the next hundred million pound game (and usually there's room for a lot more than just one degree, especially once you look at something in the "arts" from more than just one angle)...

Having said that, I do think there are a fair number of people that maybe do go to uni without understanding what they want to do (which to be honest is not exactly a surprise, we're asking 18 years olds to make massive decisions), and some that go just for a laugh and do a half hearted job, and if they're poor they fail and end up in debt, if they're rich they can just keep failing up until they ruin the country as yet another politician with a PPE, a coke habit and some time making nonsense up as a journalist.

*IIRC "The Arts" in the UK is one of our biggest, most profitable, and exported industries, everything from film/tv, to theatre, music (of all kinds), and increasingly video games.

**I mean it's not like music is useful to anything, or profitable at all levels in the UK (from playing at pubs/weddings, to filling a stadium or playing for the Queen's funeral) even if you can't tell reliably who exactly is going to make it big.
 
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