Poll: EU Referendum Voting Intentions

[jkb]

I vote no and get out although we should try to keep free trade with the EU

 

[jas72]

I vote no and get out although we should try to keep free trade with the EU

and free movement of people that EFTA brings

 

[bitslice]

Just listening to the radio and I gather that Poland's objection is that blocking benefits is discrimatory.
That sort of implies that freedom of movement is only about moving to get more money, when really it should be about making it easier to move skills around as a temporary solution and without a lot of red tape.
Everyone in Poland could make more money by coming here, but is mass depopulation a benefit for Poland?

I'm not against other Europeans coming here, but de-skilling other member countries sounds counter productive to a united Europe.
It's a bit like us poaching medical staff from India and the Phillipenes. Good for us, bad for them.

 

[mid_gen]

Except when someone makes a cheaper one which doesn't need to be as efficient and sells it to the UK market. It's a big enough market to make that feasible, and that's before considering selling relatively cheap but 'British made' stuff to non-EU countries.

Similar to how some small businesses in the UK would be happy if they didn't have to comply with EU rules if the UK ones were simpler and they could exploit just that market (which is more than big enough for them) - there was a pram company on the Daily Politics recently who wanted exactly that, iirc... it may have been Newsnight, though... I think they basically said how they'd prefer to just be able to not be bound by the rules given they only want and plan to sell in the UK anyway.

It highlights the myth of there being one business view - sure, loads of businesses will be pro-EU, but loads won't really care, and loads will be anti.

I don't quite understand this argument. You are going to be bound by regulations when selling a product. How is it better to be bound by regulations that restrict you to one market, versus regulations that open up the whole of Europe to you?

 

[robgmun]

It's sad that the essential message of the europhiles is "Britain is weak and small, it can't survive, let's be done with it".

 

[covenantuk]

Yes - No brainer for me, I'm Welsh and we pretty much depend on the EU due to being underfunded by the UK.

Underfunded? Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula


If you're talking about extra aid to depressed areas, then UK gives money to EU, EU gives it to Wales. Why not cut out the middle man?

 

[Mr Jack]

It's sad that the essential message of the europhiles is "Britain is weak and small, it can't survive, let's be done with it".

What complete rubbish.

I want Britain to be part of Europe because I want it to be a strong, confident country looking out to the world not a small, backward and inward looking nation, squatting at the edge of Europe.

 

[scorza]

What complete rubbish.

I want Britain to be part of Europe because I want it to be a strong, confident country looking out to the world not a small, backward and inward looking nation, squatting at the edge of Europe.

But the way things are going we won't be a country at all, as things stand by being a member of the EU we aren't allowed to trade with the rest of the world unless we abide by Brussels rules, we aren't allowed to say who can come into this country. What's next? will we be allowed to have our own foreign policy in future? Will we be allowed to have our own army? I'm not talking about any current plans but about what happens in 30-40 years. This is our one opportunity to maintain our own independent sovereignty.

 

[Mr Jack]

But the way things are going we won't be a country at all, as things stand by being a member of the EU we aren't allowed to trade with the rest of the world unless we abide by Brussels rules, we aren't allowed to say who can come into this country.

You mean we made agreements with other countries, and now we're expected to hold to them? How terrible! BTW, in fact, the UK has numerous non-EU trade agreements with other countries - most significantly the US and Canada.

What's next? will we be allowed to have our own foreign policy in future? Will we be allowed to have our own army? I'm not talking about any current plans but about what happens in 30-40 years.

There is no "allowed" here. We may enter agreements that limit our abilities in some area in order to benefit from other aspects of those agreements just as we have done before. The EU cannot take anything from us we do not give it.

I hope we'll see the beginnings of a truly federal Europe within my lifetime, but I think it unlikely.

This is our one opportunity to maintain our own independent sovereignty.

Such sovereignty is an illusion. The UK has greater influence over the factors that affect it as part of the EU than it would have outside it. We cannot control the world but the EU strengthens our influence not weakens it.

 

[ebilcake]

. The UK has greater influence over the factors that affect it as part of the EU than it would have outside it. We cannot control the world but the EU strengthens our influence not weakens it.

It will be very apparent how much influence we don't have when Cameron fails to secure any EU reforms.

Underfunded? Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

Oh really?

From the man himself.

Lord Barnett, now 91, never intended his formula to last for 36 years.
He recently told the BBC Radio 4's World Tonight programme it was "grossly unfair" and repeated his call for it be scrapped.
He also told the Daily Telegraph introducing it was a "terrible mistake" which had become a national and personal "embarrassment".

 

[mid_gen]

If the rules are more complicated/there are additional costs complying with EU rules, yet they don't get any benefit because they don't exploit that market, that's pretty rubbish for them, no? Obviously they could scale up and trade with the whole of the EU (or selected countries), but not everyone wants to do that... what if they're happy trading within the UK and/or exporting to developing countries?

Then they are completely free to just trade in the UK. They are going to have to meet a set of regulations in order to trade either way. May as well be ones that enable EU-wide trading.

There's an assumption in that argument that somehow UK only regulations are going to be intrinsically less stringent/less costly than EU ones.

 

[mid_gen]

But the way things are going we won't be a country at all, as things stand by being a member of the EU we aren't allowed to trade with the rest of the world unless we abide by Brussels rules, we aren't allowed to say who can come into this country. What's next? will we be allowed to have our own foreign policy in future? Will we be allowed to have our own army? I'm not talking about any current plans but about what happens in 30-40 years. This is our one opportunity to maintain our own independent sovereignty.

What is 'sovereignty' to you? Some kind of nebulous national identity? States in the US have their own laws, their own clear cultural identity. What is so bad about a federal Europe?

 

[scorza]

What is 'sovereignty' to you? Some kind of nebulous national identity? States in the US have their own laws, their own clear cultural identity. What is so bad about a federal Europe?

Nothing, I just don't want to be part of it and I think we should be told exactly what the long term plan for this federal Europe is, rather than the constant erosion of national sovereignty.

 

[joeyjojo]

At least our government gets held to account over this - unlike the EU over their failures.

Was reading an article now and thought of this discussion.

The previous government increased tendering of services within the NHS, which is estimated to cost between 4.5 and 30 billion pounds a year.

That's at least 9% of the total, wasted. Far more money (in % and absolute terms) than is misspent by the entire EU. Has the government been held to account?

Just some perspective.

 

[Burnsy2023]

What complete rubbish.

I want Britain to be part of Europe because I want it to be a strong, confident country looking out to the world not a small, backward and inward looking nation, squatting at the edge of Europe.

Indeed, the UK could exist without Europe, but it wouldn't be as strong and wouldn't have the ability to grow to it's full potential. I think also Europe is more than an economic bloc, it's work on safety, human rights and employment law all give benefits to everyone an a daily basis.

 

[itchy]

Indeed, the UK could exist without Europe, but it wouldn't be as strong and wouldn't have the ability to grow to it's full potential. I think also Europe is more than an economic bloc, it's work on safety, human rights and employment law all give benefits to everyone an a daily basis.

Been on the common purpose course have we!

I say out the EU we don't need them, we got on fine in the past without them.
Jesus we ruled half the world without them. But the banks took us the cleaners with the two world wars.

We be fine without them.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Been on the common purpose course have we!

I say out the EU we don't need them, we got on fine in the past without them.
Jesus we ruled half the world without them. But the banks took us the cleaners with the two world wars.

We be fine without them.

Yes we were in great shape in 1973 when we joined...

 

[itchy]

We where in great shape before 1914!

 

[scorza]

Yes we were in great shape in 1973 when we joined...

And we sorted ourselves out - an option we wouldn't have when we're just an EU state. In future we'd have to rely on our federal government in Brussels to sort us out. I don't like that prospect.

 

[Burnsy2023]

And we sorted ourselves out - an option we wouldn't have when we're just an EU state. In future we'd have to rely on our federal government in Brussels to sort us out. I don't like that prospect.

You and I both know that such throw away comments aren't helpful. Nobody knows how a European Federal state may work if indeed there is appetite for such a thing - because that's not what the EU is now.