Poll: EU Referendum Voting Intentions

[Mr Jack]

... but the EU isn't just a free trade organisation anymore? It has a common agricultural policy, common foreign policy and what next over the next 20-30 years? a common energy policy?

Yes, it does other things and some of those things are sensibly centralised. Some are a complete mess for reasons largely unrelated to their centralisation (e.g. the CAP and CFP) while others are less a matter of centralisation and more a matter of having more heft as a co-operative group of countries than as individual nations (e.g. the vestigial foreign policy).

Eventually, the EU may end up as a federalised state, but that's not what the EU referendum will be on.

 

[scorza]

Yes, it does other things and some of those things are sensibly centralised. Some are a complete mess for reasons largely unrelated to their centralisation (e.g. the CAP and CFP) while others are less a matter of centralisation and more a matter of having more heft as a co-operative group of countries than as individual nations (e.g. the vestigial foreign policy).

Eventually, the EU may end up as a federalised state, but that's not what the EU referendum will be on.

This is what I'm saying - local governments make decisions that result in better outcomes for the key stakeholders. That's why we should leave the EU and get out of the mess they've created by all these centrally dictated policies.

Why shouldn't the referendum be fought on what the EU will become? One thing's for sure we aren't going to be asked again for the next few decades.

 

[Tunney]

I fail to understand why a top 10 global economy needs to be tied to the EU, I don't even know why the EU exists, more government is never a good thing

What's our trajectory? Up or down? Do you believe that an independent Britain will would be a top 10 global economy in 50-100 years?

You've got to skate where the puck is going.

 

[Mr Jack]

This is what I'm saying - local governments make decisions that result in better outcomes for the key stakeholders. That's why we should leave the EU and get out of the mess they've created by all these centrally dictated policies.

Because the upsides of the EU vastly outweigh the downsides. Are there issues? Of course, do they match the advantages? Not even close.

Why shouldn't the referendum be fought on what the EU will become? One thing's for sure we aren't going to be asked again for the next few decades.

We'll be asked if it ever wants to become federalised.

 

[Hagar]

Remembering the early 1970's, Britain was not a successful country, large trade deficit, high inflation and sterling devaluing alongside the dollar and other currencies.

I believe that being part of the EEC and then the EU has transformed Britain from a failing post colonial state to having a leading role in a larger trade bloc. I do prefer EU lite rather than ever closer integration but I remain confident that the way forward is to stay in.

I await lots of internet statistics to disprove my recollections.

 

[scorza]

Because the upsides of the EU vastly outweigh the downsides. Are there issues? Of course, do they match the advantages? Not even close.

What upsides?

We'll be asked if it ever wants to become federalised.

I don't believe we will. We weren't asked about Maastricht, Rome or Lisbon treaties so why would you think we'll be asked about anything in future?

Remembering the early 1970's, Britain was not a successful country, large trade deficit, high inflation and sterling devaluing alongside the dollar and other currencies.

I believe that being part of the EEC and then the EU has transformed Britain from a failing post colonial state to having a leading role in a larger trade bloc. I do prefer EU lite rather than ever closer integration but I remain confident that the way forward is to stay in.

I await lots of internet statistics to disprove my recollections.

I just think we sorted ourselves out back then without any help from the EEC/EU - if you look at certain countries in the EU today they are in a worse state than we ever were and frankly I don't see the EU being particularly effective at helping them. More proof that localism > centralisation

 

[covenantuk]

There is really only one question you need to ask yourself on EU referendum voting:

Are you in favour of ever closer political and economic union?

- If so vote Yes

- If you think countries should keep their identities and independence, vote No

 

[Zethor]

There is really only one question you need to ask yourself on EU referendum voting:

Are you in favour of ever closer political and economic union?

- If so vote Yes

- If you think countries should keep their identities and independence, vote No

That's not what the vote is for, you opinion is just eurosceptic scaremongering. If the EU evolves into something else, such as a federal super state, it will do so with the full agreement of its members. Scotland has kept its identity for hundreds of years, what exactly do you think will prevent Britain from doing so in an advanced democracy?

 

[Orionaut]

Before all of that was the European Coal and Steel Community (ie. trade).

The "European Coal and Steel Community" wasn't about trade as such, it was, specifically, about systematically destroying the economic/industrial independence of the member states.

(It was "supposed" to destroy Germanys independence too, but it doesn't really seem to have worked out that way )

 

[arknor]

That's not what the vote is for, you opinion is just eurosceptic scaremongering. If the EU evolves into something else, such as a federal super state, it will do so with the full agreement of its members. Scotland has kept its identity for hundreds of years, what exactly do you think will prevent Britain from doing so in an advanced democracy?

no it will do it slowly over time until it's to late for anyone to reverse it.

why do you think they are already talking about an EU army and EU police

 

[Zethor]

no it will do it slowly over time until it's to late for anyone to reverse it.

why do you think they are already talking about an EU army and EU police

It will be too late to reverse it because you can't reverse progress, which is what some of you fear the most. The EU is the most ambitious political project humanity has ever undertaken and nationalists, xenophobes and traditionalists and whatnot hate it is because it will prove that different people of different cultures can work together and achieve great things in peace and harmony.

An EU army would be needed to protect EU citizens and interests, democracies don't need use armies against their own people.

 

[Orionaut]

It will be too late to reverse it because you can't reverse progress, which is what some of you fear the most. The EU is the most ambitious political project humanity has ever undertaken and nationalists, xenophobes and traditionalists and whatnot hate it is because it will prove that different people of different cultures can work together and achieve great things in peace and harmony.

An EU army would be needed to protect EU citizens and interests, democracies don't need use armies against their own people.

2000 years ago, the Empire of Rome felt it was achieving exactly the same thing.

There is probably a Roman Senate speech in the history books somewhere that says pretty much the same thing you have just posted.

The "EU Project" is just another Empire and all Empires have the same things in common.

1) They are always founded by ambitious people keen to increase their own personal power and wealth (No matter how hard they might try to dress it up with the "Greater Good" argument!)
2) The people who found them always believe that their particular empire is the last word in civilisation and progress!
3) They always believe that their particular Empire will last forever!
4) They are always wrong!
5) Empires always implode eventually!
6) When they do it is always bloody and violent (And the greater the empire, the more catastrophic the fall)

Personally, I want nothing to do with it!

 

[Zethor]

2000 years ago, the Empire of Rome felt it was achieving exactly the same thing.

There is probably a Roman Senate speech in the history books somewhere that says pretty much the same thing you have just posted.

The "EU Project" is just another Empire and all Empires have the same things in common.

1) They are always founded by ambitious people keen to increase their own personal power and wealth (No matter how hard they might try to dress it up with the "Greater Good" argument!)
2) The people who found them always believe that their particular empire is the last word in civilisation and progress!
3) They always believe that their particular Empire will last forever!
4) They are always wrong!
5) Empires always implode eventually!
6) When they do it is always bloody and violent (And the greater the empire, the more catastrophic the fall)

Personally, I want nothing to do with it!

The EU was built through cooperation, finding the mutual interest and negotiation while the Roman empire was built through blood, slavery and pillage. Your comparison is laughable.

It's definitely NOT the last word in civilisation and progress but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Orionaut]

The EU was built through cooperation, finding the mutual interest and negotiation while the Roman empire was built through blood, slavery and pillage. Your comparison is laughable.

It's definitely NOT the last word in civilisation and progress but it's a step in the right direction.

Your analogy is laughable too!

The idea that blood, slavery and pillage is somehow a bad thing is a very (very!) recent concept and there is absolutely no long term guarantee that this idea might persist (Look at ISIS!)

Classical Rome would look at the modern world in horror, regarding it as a dangerous (though technically sophisticated) anarchy!

(At the height of Rome one could travel, on foot, from Britain to Syria either through northern Europe or via North Africa and one could have done so in relative safety. Try doing that today!)

 

[Mr Jack]

(At the height of Rome one could travel, on foot, from Britain to Syria either through northern Europe or via North Africa and one could have done so in relative safety. Try doing that today!)

At it's height Rome was at least one, probably two, maybe more, orders of magnitude more dangerous and violent than modern Europe. The idea that it isn't is just complete and utter nonsense completely at odds with all available facts.

 

[Tunney]

1) They are always founded by ambitious people keen to increase their own personal power and wealth (No matter how hard they might try to dress it up with the "Greater Good" argument!)

True.

2) The people who found them always believe that their particular empire is the last word in civilisation and progress!

False. 19th century Germany created an empire through an inferiority complex.

3) They always believe that their particular Empire will last forever!

False. Genghis Khan certainly didn't.

4) They are always wrong!

See above.

5) Empires always implode eventually!

True but some last for several thousand years. The Eastern Roman Emperor had a good run.

6) When they do it is always bloody and violent (And the greater the empire, the more catastrophic the fall)

False. Some just peter out.

 

[scorza]

Philip Hammond admits that demands for a sovereign UK parliament are not achievable within the EU

 

[kindai]

Philip Hammond admits that demands for a sovereign UK parliament are not achievable within the EU

Pretty much the exact reason I will vote to leave.

 

[arknor]

Pretty much the exact reason I will vote to leave.

nearly all the papers will be pro eu I imagine because of their owners.
they will be the ones who get to decide what happens.
seemed the same way with the election, no one was voting labour after they thought SNP would be the head and labour the wagging tail.


It's quite easy to manipulate the readers

there will be riots one day if they keep up with unrealistic immigration at a time when we are cutting every service imaginable

 

[V F]

nearly all the papers will be pro eu I imagine because of their owners.
they will be the ones who get to decide what happens.
seemed the same way with the election, no one was voting labour after they thought SNP would be the head and labour the wagging tail.


It's quite easy to manipulate the readers

there will be riots one day if they keep up with unrealistic immigration at a time when we are cutting every service imaginable