European court: You are allowed to resell your steam games

Martini you still don't get it.

There is no software licence involved with most MMO's, the CD key allows you to create an account, that account is not a software licence, the key does not represent a software licence in any form. The software is completely free.

Just ignore the term serial or CD key, call it something like account code. I buy a copy of WoW, I receive a hard copy of their free software, I also receive an account code to create an account I can then use on ANY version of that free software.
 
Last edited:
Martini you still don't get it.

There is no software licence involved with most MMO's, the CD key allows you to create an account, the account is not a software licence, the key does not represent a software licence in any form.

No it doesn't!

Read carefully.

In many cases, you make the account before you put in your serial key, to play the game you activate a serial key, which gives you your initial 30 days (as is generally standard)
Simply revoke that serial key.

SWTOR, I had an account before I registered a serial key.
Same with RIFT.
 
Explain to me this.
What is so hard about revoking the serial key from the license to resell it, given the account is made before using any serial key (Thus, if you made the account, but didn't use that serial key, the serial key hasn't been used, but the account still exists)
 
Explain to me this.
What is so hard about revoking the serial key from the license to resell it, given the account is made before using any serial key (Thus, if you made the account, but didn't use that serial key, the serial key hasn't been used, but the account still exists)

Nothing is hard about it, what I'm getting at is that what you are talking about has nothing to do with the ruling what so ever.
 
So up yourself it's unreal.

EDIT : Since you've now done 2 edits, and what you were mentioning was actually wrong, stating the account was made with the serial key (When it wasn't)
And then you say I'm waffling about things I don't know about?

I'm mentioning how MMO's could easily be included in this ruling, since it's still a serial key that can easily be revoked, yet you were so flipping arrogant, you wouldn't read what I was saying.
 
Last edited:
So up yourself it's unreal.
I'm mentioning how MMO's could easily be included in this ruling, since it's still a serial key that can easily be revoked,

You're confusing a bunch of things.
First, this court ruling has nothing to do with serial keys. Serial keys are simply one way publishers identify a purchaser; they are used by MMOs, and they are also used by some retail games - but not all.
Some games and software don't have a serial key but are covered by this ruling. MMOs do use a serial key, but are NOT covered by this ruling (I'll explain why below).

Second, yes, it would be very easy for an MMO publisher to revoke a license and transfer it on to someone else. This is possible. But just because it is is possible, doesn't mean its likely.

On the the real issue:

This ruling does NOT apply to subscription services. It applies ONLY to software you pay an initial cost for, and then nothing more. After you pay the initial cost, you then own that software.

Now, you might say that software EULAs often say the buyer is not getting ownership of the software itself, but is just buying a license to that software.
This is what they say, but saying it doesn't make it true. The courts have to rule on whether that is legitimate, and roughly speaking, this court has said that is not legitimate, and the buyer does effectively own his copy of the software regardless of the claims made in the EULA.

So, you buy a piece of software for a set fee, you own it, and can sell it on.

MMOs on the other hand are rentals, also known as subscription services. You pay a recurring fee, then when you stop paying it, you lose access to the software.

Now, you can make a case that maybe MMOs publishers [/i]should[/i] allow people to sell their accounts (it's technically possible, and easy to implement), and others can make a case why this wouldn't happen (possibly diminish the quality of the game, if people can just jump in with max level characters - it would force devs to make their games stay interesting even when everyone is max level, I think, or find ways to eliminate the concept of a max level). But that's for a later court to decide: this ruling does not cover subscription services at all.

Also, people said that games publishers would simply call their services subscriptions, and say you lose access after x amount of years.
Courts do not look at what the publishes call their software. They look at what it actually is. If a publisher calls a piece of software a subscription service, but requires you to pay a flat fee to buy it and its yours for 10 years or 20 years, the courts have two likely rulings:

* First, they;ll probably declare that this is not a subscription (even if there is a recurring fee, if its too low, the courts will recognise it is a token attempt to get around the law, and rule it out).

* They'll then have to decide: since it is a sale, is the seller justified in removing access to the bought games after X amount of years? That could go either way. If people bought the software while those terms were public, then it's likely to rule in favour of the publisher. If a publisher tries to retroactivaley change the terms for people who have already bought games, they are likely to rule against the publisher.
 
@meme

I think you are wrong about MMO's, you still buy a license to play the game and then you add on the subscription to play on their servers.

So technically you could sell on WoW + Expansions. However, your characters would stay with your account which you can no longer play the game on since you have removed the game as according to the ruling.
 
You are mistaking the word licence, this ruling is about SOFTWARE LICENCES.

An MMO account is not a software licence.

http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/wow_eula.html

Are you stating that there are no software licenses involved in MMO's?

The question is, does this licence fall under the ruling since there is a limited period of access, however the software licence itself is not renewed like an Anti Virus software subscription is?
 
Last edited:
person buys game for full price
person sells game for 5-6quid
person uses that 5-6 quid towards another title.

the revenue still exists companies might not make as many deep discount sales anymore but they are likely to see more full price sales and get more off a games revenue upfront rathet than 6-12months down the line

This is just as much an assumption as anything else.

It might ring true to a serial gamer, but more intermittent purchasers are not always going to funnel that recouped money in to more games. And even if they do, what if those funds go to a different publisher/developer?

I don't have as much time to play games as much as I used to, so any money I make from selling on would probably go on food, nights out, or other things not related to gaming.

As a big ol hypothetical example:

Without second-hand selling, 'Call of Honour 16: Guybrush Mans Up' would sell 100k units in the first week, with a discount plan to reduce the price by £5 after 1 month, and again after 2 months.

With second-hand selling, 20k of those original first week purchasers think "Hey, I've actually got plenty on my gaming plater for the next 2 weeks, I'll wait for the early adopters to rush through it and buy it in 2 weeks for £10 less.

20k units are sold by the first-week buyers to these patient ones, and that money is used to buy games from rival developers.

Smells like many lost sales to me.
 
Martini you still don't get it.

There is no software licence involved with most MMO's, the CD key allows you to create an account, that account is not a software licence, the key does not represent a software licence in any form. The software is completely free.

Just ignore the term serial or CD key, call it something like account code. I buy a copy of WoW, I receive a hard copy of their free software, I also receive an account code to create an account I can then use on ANY version of that free software.

The CD key is the license for the software, if there were no license involved then you wouldn't need to purchase the game with a CD key in order to use your account.

If it was purely subscription based you'd just pay a flat monthly fee without having to buy anything else up front.
 
This is just as much an assumption as anything else.

It might ring true to a serial gamer, but more intermittent purchasers are not always going to funnel that recouped money in to more games. And even if they do, what if those funds go to a different publisher/developer?

I don't have as much time to play games as much as I used to, so any money I make from selling on would probably go on food, nights out, or other things not related to gaming.

As a big ol hypothetical example:

Without second-hand selling, 'Call of Honour 16: Guybrush Mans Up' would sell 100k units in the first week, with a discount plan to reduce the price by £5 after 1 month, and again after 2 months.

With second-hand selling, 20k of those original first week purchasers think "Hey, I've actually got plenty on my gaming plater for the next 2 weeks, I'll wait for the early adopters to rush through it and buy it in 2 weeks for £10 less.

20k units are sold by the first-week buyers to these patient ones, and that money is used to buy games from rival developers.

Smells like many lost sales to me.

And yet Barbie still makes billions... the court ruling has stated that it is our right be able to sell it on, why should these handful of industries be able to sidestep our rights?
 
And yet Barbie still makes billions... the court ruling has stated that it is our right be able to sell it on, why should these handful of industries be able to sidestep our rights?

Physical items are consumed differently to games. A game can be finished in a week or 2, never to be played again, whereas a physical toy is likely to be used for considerably longer.

There is also a difference in perception of second-hand physical goods to games, kids are more likely to want a brand new toy.
 
Good thing imo

as others have said you can pretty much sell anything else you own.

I buy less games now than i did before even tho they are cheaper.. why?

having to spend sometimes a lot of time just to get it working
endless downloading of patches
multiple different platforms like steam
activation limits,
drm/inet connection constantly

i really miss just putting a game on, entering a code, clicking on icon, playing game, downloading a patch every now and again.

i know most people like the new download/steam era but for me it just adds faff.

Get a game you dont like on steam etc, cant sell it, rubbish. I would prefer more expensive/finished games than what we have now
 
Selling a car second hand takes money from Ford etc, you could use that argument for anything material but it doesn't seem to bother other industries.

Well, no it doesn't, they made one car, they sold one car. They lost no money.

I think selling second hand digital games is a good idea, maybe the companies will start making decent games.
 
Has anyone though that VALVE and EA might just ask us to agree to a no "resell" on all current and future games in the next iteration of the Steam/Origin platform?
 
Back
Top Bottom