European Football Leagues 2012-13 [Spain/France/Italy/Germany/other]

He's constructed the Real side, really? Ronaldo, no, Alonso, no, Ramos, Casillas(obviously) no, Benzema, Higuain, no. Varane..... Coentrao is woeful and cost £30mil, Modric is £33mil, not by any means terrible but not the basis of that team, Ozil is a joke in all the big games, Di Maria is a diving idiot who has gone missing in 8/10 of their big games, marginally better than Ozil in that regard.

The vast majority of that squad, most of the way it played, most of the players was by and large Pellegrino.

Mourinho won't get any credit because he wasted money, got maybe 2 buys right in total, got the entire squad fighting, got thrashed in the league, and lets not forget, kicked Fabregas when Marcelo tried to kill him and was on the floor injured, stuck his finger in the current Barca manager's eye(when he was previously assistant), and is generally the biggest **** in a team that already had Ramos, Pepe, Marcelo in, which is some achievement.

As for Inter, it was at a time that much like Mancini, there wasn't really any competition with the previous competition all being wiped out by the scandal and taking many years to rebuild. He bought short term solutions on high wages, IIRC they were gifted the title in 2004 via the other guys having the title taken off them, Inter also haven't fallen quite as by the way side as people think, its a combination of everyone else getting promoted, getting back to strength, etc, etc.

Inter won the tital from 2004/05 through 2009/10, Mourinho once again took over a winning team(with little competition) and turned them in the short term more defensive, and long term screwed them up.

Lets just say this, managers take over, they don't forget every second before then, and when managers leave, everything they've done isn't erase instantly... I like how because you clearly love Mourinho you're both saying the Inter team after he left getting worse couldn't possibly have anything to do with Mourinho, but in absolutely the opposite stance, think Real will improve because of Mourinho's work over the past couple years.

one of those views suggests managers leave a lasting effect (that usually takes quite some time, 1-3 season depending on the level of change IMHO) on a team after they leave, and one of those suggests that a team that falls apart right after he leaves has absolutely nothing to do with the previous manager, so has no lasting effect on the team at all.

The fact that Chelsea got worse and had trouble, attitude problems, problems with being too defensive and looking stale upfront, that he tried the same at Real but almost lost his job being too defensive in the first year and quite clearly changed his tune in the big games(he started off with Inter vs Barca like games and getting thrashed against Barca, and then switched when seemingly being threatened with being fired after a year to a very un mourinho like all out attack against Barca, and their results improved drastically). Its his MO, you can see this at every club, that teams start to fall apart after 2 years.... but at Inter it can't be his fault and if Real improve next year, it will be down to him... sure.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if PSG try and put together a swap deal, Ibrahimovic + cash for Rooney. Would be shocked if we signed him though.
 
drunkenmaster said:
He's constructed the Real side, really? Ronaldo, no, Alonso, no, Ramos, Casillas(obviously) no, Benzema, Higuain, no. Varane..... Coentrao is woeful and cost £30mil, Modric is £33mil, not by any means terrible but not the basis of that team, Ozil is a joke in all the big games, Di Maria is a diving idiot who has gone missing in 8/10 of their big games, marginally better than Ozil in that regard.

The vast majority of that squad, most of the way it played, most of the players was by and large Pellegrino.

Mourinho won't get any credit because he wasted money, got maybe 2 buys right in total, got the entire squad fighting, got thrashed in the league, and lets not forget, kicked Fabregas when Marcelo tried to kill him and was on the floor injured, stuck his finger in the current Barca manager's eye(when he was previously assistant), and is generally the biggest **** in a team that already had Ramos, Pepe, Marcelo in, which is some achievement.

As for Inter, it was at a time that much like Mancini, there wasn't really any competition with the previous competition all being wiped out by the scandal and taking many years to rebuild. He bought short term solutions on high wages, IIRC they were gifted the title in 2004 via the other guys having the title taken off them, Inter also haven't fallen quite as by the way side as people think, its a combination of everyone else getting promoted, getting back to strength, etc, etc.

Inter won the tital from 2004/05 through 2009/10, Mourinho once again took over a winning team(with little competition) and turned them in the short term more defensive, and long term screwed them up.

Lets just say this, managers take over, they don't forget every second before then, and when managers leave, everything they've done isn't erase instantly... I like how because you clearly love Mourinho you're both saying the Inter team after he left getting worse couldn't possibly have anything to do with Mourinho, but in absolutely the opposite stance, think Real will improve because of Mourinho's work over the past couple years.

one of those views suggests managers leave a lasting effect (that usually takes quite some time, 1-3 season depending on the level of change IMHO) on a team after they leave, and one of those suggests that a team that falls apart right after he leaves has absolutely nothing to do with the previous manager, so has no lasting effect on the team at all.

The fact that Chelsea got worse and had trouble, attitude problems, problems with being too defensive and looking stale upfront, that he tried the same at Real but almost lost his job being too defensive in the first year and quite clearly changed his tune in the big games(he started off with Inter vs Barca like games and getting thrashed against Barca, and then switched when seemingly being threatened with being fired after a year to a very un mourinho like all out attack against Barca, and their results improved drastically). Its his MO, you can see this at every club, that teams start to fall apart after 2 years.... but at Inter it can't be his fault and if Real improve next year, it will be down to him... sure.
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He's the manager, he's had the signings he wanted bought and brought into the side, he may not have made all of them but I doubt he had very few complaints inheriting such a star studded side upon arrival, so no doubt his tenure has been a disappointment by his own high standards, still a construction in my eyes as you need to make the team work to the best of your abilities. Pre Mourinho they may have ran Barcelona close but they didn't come close to competing at all levels, 3 semi finals in a row says as much as opposed to the shocking prior levels of success since 2004...

I also stated he shouldn't get credit for any success post firing/leaving just like he shouldn't get the blame once he leaves a club, which was my point. That's what the next guy in charge is for... to fix issues fans or the board and higher ups had with whomever was in charge or in Mourinho's case at Inter he leaves for what was his dream job at the time, sure he looks at it differently now. Did he also not deliver a thrashing of his own last season ? conveniently left out of that rant, he most certainly wasn't able to play his own natural style but ''this is Real Madrid'' were not supposed to do that defending stuff.. and so he scrapped his mindset but it could have had as much to do with his failure to nullify the Barcelona threat with his favoured tactical deviations. I think Italy is where Mourinho is best suited tactically although he is just as disliked by the majority as he is in Spain and maybe England.


There was domestic competition or we wouldn't have won the league by 2 points... in our treble winning season Roma were more than playing their part as title challengers, the rest of the league was indeed weakened, dramatically so but one could argue the same now for Juventus last two title wins. Other teams are a level below (Inter/Roma even further than a level) and Milan will likely have a resurgence next season and are my Scudetto favourites as their form has shown since January.

Your claims about Mourinho making us more defensive as if that is something negative should be laughed at. He made us as solid as a unit something the great Herrera would have been proud of, yet we still shipped more goals than Mancini's Inter as competition had increased but the goal return had improved as well as he got the very best out of Ibrahimovic and then Milito with both getting career high tallies for him at the time, not even mentioning the fact you totally overlooked the very reason he was hired.

Champions League success was craved at Inter like nothing else and yet he delivered the dream in two years... erased all the bad memories of Mancini (in the Champions League) something he continues to this day with a far more impressive squad. He was hired for that sole reason and he did what he was handsomely paid for.

My only argument even coming into this topic was that Mourinho was not negative at Inter, we didn't always play the best football in the world but nor did we really have the talent to do so, but there were some truly magical bits of play throughout as with any side capable of winning everything before them and we usually saved our best stuff for the CL, in fact the only person who could have beat him for style was Leonardo but he totally ignored defending, it was exciting to watch but you knew things would end badly more than not. I have a preference for attacking Football but I 100% believe in respecting both sides of coin as it seems Mourinho does.

To blame Mourinho for Inter getting worse is simply stupid... the management should have made signings after such a successful spell under him and we could have probably made back to back CL finals if some common sense had been used. Instead we extended many players contracts with even fatter cheques and wondered where that team spirit and solidity had disappeared to. Mourinho didn't screw up Inter he gave us our most successful spell in my lifetime and it was up to the management post Mourinho to make sure that continued to happen. They failed in their simple task of keeping a top team on top... and let it get complacent. Poor signings, sales and a lack of money have hurt us in the 3 years since Mourinho, not Mourinho! if you choose to ignore that.. no point even replying.
 
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ObixConstant said:
He's the manager, he's had the signings he wanted bought and brought into the side, he may not have made all of them but I doubt he had very few complaints inheriting such a star studded side upon arrival, so no doubt his tenure has been a disappointment by his own high standards, still a construction in my eyes as you need to make the team work to the best of your abilities. Pre Mourinho they may have ran Barcelona close but they didn't come close to competing at all levels, 3 semi finals in a row says as much as opposed to the shocking prior levels of success since 2004...

I also stated he shouldn't get credit for any success post firing/leaving just like he shouldn't get the blame once he leaves a club, which was my point. That's what the next guy in charge is for... to fix issues fans or the board and higher ups had with whomever was in charge or in Mourinho's case at Inter he leaves for what was his dream job at the time, sure he looks at it differently now. Did he also not deliver a thrashing of his own last season ? conveniently left out of that rant, he most certainly wasn't able to play his own natural style but ''this is Real Madrid'' were not supposed to do that defending stuff.. and so he scrapped his mindset but it could have had as much to do with his failure to nullify the Barcelona threat with his favoured tactical deviations. I think Italy is where Mourinho is best suited tactically although he is just as disliked by the majority as he is in Spain and maybe England.


There was domestic competition or we wouldn't have won the league by 2 points... in our treble winning season Roma were more than playing their part as title challengers, the rest of the league was indeed weakened, dramatically so but one could argue the same now for Juventus last two title wins. Other teams are a level below (Inter/Roma even further than a level) and Milan will likely have a resurgence next season and are my Scudetto favourites as their form has shown since January.

Your claims about Mourinho making us more defensive as if that is something negative should be laughed at. He made us as solid as a unit something the great Herrera would have been proud of, yet we still shipped more goals than Mancini's Inter as competition had increased but the goal return had improved as well as he got the very best out of Ibrahimovic and then Milito with both getting career high tallies for him at the time, not even mentioning the fact you totally overlooked the very reason he was hired.

Champions League success was craved at Inter like nothing else and yet he delivered the dream in two years... erased all the bad memories of Mancini (in the Champions League) something he continues to this day with a far more impressive squad. He was hired for that sole reason and he did what he was handsomely paid for.

My only argument even coming into this topic was that Mourinho was not negative at Inter, we didn't always play the best football in the world but nor did we really have the talent to do so, but there were some truly magical bits of play throughout as with any side capable of winning everything before them and we usually saved our best stuff for the CL, in fact the only person who could have beat him for style was Leonardo but he totally ignored defending, it was exciting to watch but you knew things would end badly more than not. I have a preference for attacking Football but I 100% believe in respecting both sides of coin as it seems Mourinho does.

To blame Mourinho for Inter getting worse is simply stupid... the management should have made signings after such a successful spell under him and we could have probably made back to back CL finals if some common sense had been used. Instead we extended many players contracts with even fatter cheques and wondered where that team spirit and solidity had disappeared to. Mourinho didn't screw up Inter he gave us our most successful spell in my lifetime and it was up to the management post Mourinho to make sure that continued to happen. They failed in their simple task of keeping a top team on top... and let it get complacent. Poor signings, sales and a lack of money have hurt us in the 3 years since Mourinho, not Mourinho! if you choose to ignore that.. no point even replying.
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Mourinho knew Inter's squad was getting very old and they had hit there peak, He done what any sensible manager would do and pack his bags and leave on a high. Inter sold players afterwards and just bought badly. They got offered around £25 million for Sneijder from United and in the end accepted £9 million 2 years later. They had high wages as a team but with the right management that team could have been transitioned a lot better.
 
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