European Grand Prix 2011, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 8/19

CaptainRAVE · 23 Jun 2011 at 12:43

Tony Fernandes’ comments re the coming race in Valencia:

“On track the goals are clear – repeat the qualifying performance from Canada and keep up our much improved reliability record to bring both cars home on Sunday,” said Fernandes.

“It would also be good if the other drivers on the grid could avoid using either of our cars as launch ramps this year…”

Duke · 23 Jun 2011 at 13:27

DBT85 · 23 Jun 2011 at 13:35

Mr Jack said:
Given that they can choose from a selection of remaps on the fly anyway will this really make any difference? Won't they just set one of the remaps to be the "qually" one and just have slightly fewer options in the race?

Do we know that the dials on the wheel are for engine maps though? The ECU is a standard unit controlled by the FIA. I doubt that they would introduce these rules if the knew teams could just change it on the dial anyway.

AFAIK the dials are for things like max revs, fuel mix, diff settings, throttle map (IE, 50% peddle is 25% or 75% throttle) etc.

Dutch Guy · 23 Jun 2011 at 13:41

Would using more fuel/air actually give more bhp/speed if the max rpm is limited?
And can the teams adjust the amount of fuel/air on the fly, are they even allowed to change that?

Mr Jack · 23 Jun 2011 at 13:42

Todge said:
Do we know that the dials on the wheel are for engine maps though? The ECU is a standard unit controlled by the FIA. I doubt that they would introduce these rules if the knew teams could just change it on the dial anyway.

I was pretty sure they had a set of different maps they could choose at the touch of a button. I thought we'd heard them discussing choosing settings on the radio.

DBT85 · 23 Jun 2011 at 13:49

Dutch Guy said:
Would using more fuel/air actually give more bhp/speed if the max rpm is limited?
And can the teams adjust the amount of fuel/air on the fly, are they even allowed to change that?

From a T3 article last year on Mr Schmachers wheel. Obviously there are different buttons and stuff now but yes they can change fuel mix etc.

1/ MSG OK
Confirms settings dialled in with multi-function dial and menu settings.

2/ Menu scroll buttons
Steps through menus of settings chosen using the master switch (14).

3/ Differential adjustment
Can be shifted to suit track conditions and tyre wear, for instance to increase traction, grip, braking stability and turn-in.

4/ Neutral switch
Engages neutral/reverse.

5/ Front wing switch
Adjusts angle of front flaps to increase downforce.

6/ Radio LED
Illuminates in blue to inform the driver that the pit-to-car radio is active.

7/ Pit-to-car radio
On/off toggle.

8/ Fuel mix adjustment
Adjusts the fuel mix and revs either to preserve the engine or increase performance, as required.

9/ Throttle map override
Adjusts throttle and power characteristics to suit track conditions.

10/ Overtake button
Momentarily increases the engine revs to its 18,000rpm maximum. Helps with overtaking and scaring off pigeons.

11/ Pitlane speed limiter
On/off toggle.

12/ Engine braking level
Particularly useful in the wet for increasing rear-end stability.

13/ Tyre configuration
Optimises car settings for slick, intermediate or wet tyres. Also activates the rear rain light.

14/ Master multifunction switch
Allows the driver to access a number of system settings including engine maps, front wing controls and an aero-mapping function that monitors and maximizes car airflow.

Mr Jack said:
I was pretty sure they had a set of different maps they could choose at the touch of a button. I thought we'd heard them discussing choosing settings on the radio.

That's quite possible, but I think that might be more to do with the above. Even if Mr driver turns knob 27 to give a different engine map, it'll show up on the ECU and you know they are going to be checking it this weekend after the rule change. Number 14 on that image is related to engine maps so who knows. I just can't see anyone getting away with changing them regardless of how they do it.

L33 · 23 Jun 2011 at 14:10

Todge said:
From a T3 article last year on Mr Schmachers wheel........

[pedantic]
Silly T3. That is a 2007 McLaren steering wheel; certainly never one that MS will have used. MS's MGP wheel is still almost identical to the wheel used back when they were Honda.
[/pedantic]

This is either a late 2009 Brawn wheel or very early 2010 MGP:

There are additional buttons, switch/gear/clutch paddles and rotaries on the rear of the wheel too.

DBT85 · 23 Jun 2011 at 14:17

L33 said:
[pedantic]
Silly T3. That is a 2007 McLaren steering wheel; certainly never one that MS will have used. MS's MGP wheel is still almost identical to the wheel used back when they were Honda.
[/pedantic]

This is either a late 2009 Brawn wheel or very early 2010 MGP:
]

There are additional buttons, switch/gear/clutch paddles and rotaries on the rear of the wheel too.

Doh. I was only quoting them though to be fair

L33 · 23 Jun 2011 at 14:20

Todge said:
Doh. I was only quoting them though to be fair

I know, was meant to be aimed at T3 rather than you

Amazing how the number of switches and buttons has shot up in just a few years, looking at that 2007 wheel there seems to be just one rotary for diff settings, I think most wheels will now have 4 rotaries for diff settings alone (entry, apex/mid, exit and overall lock). Crazy.........

DBT85 · 23 Jun 2011 at 14:24

L33 said:
I know, was meant to be aimed at T3 rather than you
Amazing how the number of switches and buttons has shot up in just a few years, looking at that 2007 wheel there seems to be just one rotary for diff settings, I think most wheels will now have 4 rotaries for diff settings alone (entry, apex/mid, exit and overall lock). Crazy.........

I know it wasn't at me, i just hate essentially being lied to like that lol.

Its manic how they have so much to do on that wheel. Quite surprised the FIA hasn't set a limit on dials or flaps and stuff tbh.

utajoker · 23 Jun 2011 at 15:36

makes you realise more and more how much work is done in the cockpit all the while hitting every apex of every lap with ever diminishing fuel weight, while watching mirrors defending and some times while looking for an overtake spot too, oh and its all at 180mph.

tbh they are super human to do that

Mr Jack · 23 Jun 2011 at 15:40

Todge said:
That's quite possible, but I think that might be more to do with the above.

It lists "engine map" on your picture so I think it's more than "quite possible" :confused:

Even if Mr driver turns knob 27 to give a different engine map, it'll show up on the ECU and you know they are going to be checking it this weekend after the rule change. Number 14 on that image is related to engine maps so who knows. I just can't see anyone getting away with changing them regardless of how they do it.

But there's no ruling stopping them doing that? It just says they can't change the overall settings between quali and race any more. If they just change engine map #4 say to be the quali one do they really lose much?

I don't get it.

Skeeter · 23 Jun 2011 at 16:37

As said, this cannot be the banning of something that could just be activated on a switch, otherwise the FIA wouldn't be banning it. They can change many aspects of the ECU from the wheel, but what they are talking about must be more complicated. I have read its the kind of thing teams could do in a racing pitstop by plugging in a laptop, but not that its something the driver can turn on and off.

What they are talking about is reprogramming the ECU between qualifying and the race, rather than just changing the predefined settings in the current map. Its clearly something quite involved.

However, if its quite involved and is a major change, I still have to question how its been allowed in the first place under parc-ferme rules. I still think this is an oversight on the FIA's part to do with park-ferme rules that the teams have found a way to exploit, and the FIA have decided to stop.

Glaucus · 23 Jun 2011 at 16:40

It is banning of something on a switch. However the fia have to approve any software on the ecu. So if the ecu can't have the software on it and thus the switch won't work. I am sure fia will be checking the ECU extra hard for the next couple of races. If they even need to, the telemetry should show it easily.

Its not re programming as prety sure that's against the rules, as I understand it there are just a few engine maps on the ecu and you can switch between them. Fia are just going to make. Sure there isn't a qaulifying one on the ecu.

FrankJH · 23 Jun 2011 at 17:01

utajoker said:
this is were hamilton gets things back on track and gets his second win.

Wrong McLaren (hopefully)

But LH may get a podium lol

El_Watcher · 23 Jun 2011 at 17:15

AcidHell2 said:
Its not re programming as prety sure that's against the rules, as I understand it there are just a few engine maps on the ecu and you can switch between them. Fia are just going to make. Sure there isn't a qaulifying one on the ecu.

But I don't see how that works, because they can't have standard maps that all teams use, because their engines will require different maps to work. Therefore unless they title one of the maps "Qually", how are the FIA going to know that a specific map is a qually map?

Skeeter · 23 Jun 2011 at 17:24

This has nothing to do with them checking there isn't a 'Quali' map on the ECU, it is a ban on them reprogramming the ECU between qualifying and the race.

If the teams having to reprogram the ECU between quali and the race then it clearly cannot be something that is simply changed by a switch (why would you reprogram something when you could just switch it on or off?!?).

Unless you are suggesting the FIA have banned something that doesn't exist.... :confused:

Glaucus · 23 Jun 2011 at 17:26

El_Watcher said:
But I don't see how that works, because they can't have standard maps that all teams use, because their engines will require different maps to work. Therefore unless they title one of the maps "Qually", how are the FIA going to know that a specific map is a qually map?

No they don't have standard maps, teams are allowed to use and make what ever maps they want.
Through telemetry and code. It's pretty easy to tell what the engine is doing.

All it means is they can't have one map that has massive amounts of OTBD and another map with hardly any.

Glaucus · 23 Jun 2011 at 17:27

Skeeter said:
This has nothing to do with them checking there isn't a 'Quali' map on the ECU, it is a ban on them reprogramming the ECU between qualifying and the race.

If the teams having to reprogram the ECU between quali and the race then it clearly cannot be something that is simply changed by a switch (why would you reprogram something when you could just switch it on or off?!?).

Unless you are suggesting the FIA have banned something that doesn't exist....

Didn't realise, that got a link? I thought that wasn't allowed. And it can be programmed on the fly, as anything on the ecu has to be approved by the fia first.

Skeeter · 23 Jun 2011 at 17:30

From the F1 website.

Finally, with immediate effect, it will no longer be possible to reprogramme the ECU configuration between qualifying and the race in the expectation that this will discourage extreme ECU setups for qualifying - previously electronic access to the ECU under parc ferme conditions had been explicitly permitted.

Sauce

It appears access to reprogram the ECU has been included deliberately an an exception to the parc-ferme rules. This exception has now been removed (no idea why it was there in the first place!).

Clearly the settings that this reprogramming allows are things that cannot be done by the driver from the wheel.

As of Silverstone the ECU mappings will need to conform to the no throttle/no power rules. And yes, these will go through FIA approval.