European Grand Prix 2012, Valencia - Race 8/20

When Lewis jumped over the kerbs at Monaco and hit into Felipe who was taking the racing line, he got a penalty, on here though it was Felipe's fault how dare he take the racing line and not give Lewis room....

Today we have a role reversal and funny enough this time it's the guy being aggressive on the kerbs out of control that is to blame :D
 
As much as people are saying he's not fighting Maldonado for the title - he is fighting for the points still and shouldn't be expected to just give up a chunk of points because he happens to have a lunatic trying to get past who will spear him off the road if he fails.
 
As much as people are saying he's not fighting Maldonado for the title - he is fighting for the points still and shouldn't be expected to just give up a chunk of points because he happens to have a lunatic trying to get past who will spear him off the road if he fails.

Agreed. In a championship where the lead was decided by 3 points you need(ed) every place you could get.
 
Such a disappointing decision against Pasta.

Great race though, really admire Alonso more and more each race, he is simply on fire this season.

Gutted for Lewis but the Mclaren didn't seem to have the race pace. In fact it was an odd one for Lewis, held on fairly well, usual Mclaren pitstop, fights back, possible drive thru, all ok and then Pasta offers him a post race T-bone early :)
 
As much as people are saying he's not fighting Maldonado for the title - he is fighting for the points still and shouldn't be expected to just give up a chunk of points because he happens to have a lunatic trying to get past who will spear him off the road if he fails.

And to think people seem to lap it up when Senna used to do the same thing ;)
 
When Lewis jumped over the kerbs at Monaco and hit into Felipe who was taking the racing line, he got a penalty, on here though it was Felipe's fault how dare he take the racing line and not give Lewis room....

You mean on the inside of the hairpin? Hamilton hadn't left the track had he? He was just up the inside.
 
Firstly, that isn't the rule, secondly, that isn't the rule, and thirdly, they weren't level. Asides from that you're right..

They were side by side at the turn in for the corner. I'm not disagreeing that Pastor was in the wrong or anything else in the post but at the point where Lewis turns into the corner PM was an inch or two ahead. The second view of the youtube vid in post 1115 shows this clearly. The moment Lewis goes to turn in PM is marginally ahead. 16 secs ish on this vid.

 
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All in all I thought this was a cracking race. Loved Brundle taking the mickey out of Crofty with his "exposed" comment just after the obligatory shot of bikini'd babes in a rooftop swimming pool. :cool: For such a rubbish track, this race was half-decent!

When Vettel was leading I thought he'd go on to win, probably take the lead of the title race and cement his position as the person most likely to win the title at this fairly early stage in the title. Then he retired and I thought Hamilton was carrying on his fine consistent point scoring form and would actually be the person most likely to win the title due to his consistency. I was thinking this even when Alonso was leading.

Then Hamilton retired, something to do with Maldonado apparently? :p Alonso did what he does so well. He took the race by the scruff of the neck and went on to put an end to that new race winner with each race in F1. :D

If Ferrari can keep giving Alonso a car that whilst it isn't the out and out fastest, I think Ferrari have a chance of seeing Alonso win the title purely because of the awesome driver that he is and what he can do with a car that isn't the fastest.

So my current tip for the title is Alonso but I wouldn't bet on that. Button could easily come back from nowhere, win at Silverstone for the first time and see Alonso, Vettel et al crash out.
 
As much as people are saying he's not fighting Maldonado for the title - he is fighting for the points still and shouldn't be expected to just give up a chunk of points because he happens to have a lunatic trying to get past who will spear him off the road if he fails.

Even more is, an unsafe driver is an unsafe driver, if he let Maldonado past down the straight Maldonado could still decide to drive into him, that is all that is relevant. We've seen Maldonado do that before and we saw Kovo hit by someone randomly hitting him when he made no trouble for the guy getting past.

If Maldonado did what he did on purpose, and I absolutely don't discount that, then he could have done that on a straight even if Hamilton got out of the way. A maniac on the track is a maniac on the track no matter what you do. Hamilton was running his race and driving safely in all incidents of overtaking, Maldonado wasn't, regularly doesn't and the only reason Hamilton didn't finish in either 3rd or 4th was Maldonado commiting a ridiculous attempt at an overtake then a horrifically unsafe move in coming back onto the track mid corner and smacking a car in the side.

He seems to have a temper, and worse, he seems utterly willing to use his car as a weapon when his temper gets the best of him, he really doesn't have any business being out there.

The fact that he hit a steward under yellows and got banned from Monaco proves that, who else has that happened to, who else is rich enough to bribe his way out of the ban?

Ultimately, I do wonder if that is why it was a 20 second penalty and not something VERY harsh.... how much money does he personally bring to the team, to Bernie and the sport, we've already seen that money buy his way out of trouble and into a drive, is it that far fetched that the same guys who take his money don't want to either ban him or give him harsh penalties?


Anyway, well done Alonso, he put in a few really nice moves, mostly at the start of the race as it turns out the Grosjean move basically didn't matter(still good don't get me wrong just the importance of those early moves made the race for him). He was given a huge gift from Mclaren pit crew again, would have been nice to see Hamilton/Alonso fight it out in the dying stages of the race but wasn't to be :(

Ultimately people need to realise practice pace means literally nothing, qualifying pace doesn't mean an awful lot either. With refueling and or previous seasons tyres we've seen a significant increase in pace throughout a race, with these tyres, this year, race pace isn't remotely close to qualifying outside a few people who pit ultra late and put on a bit of a spurt(great to see, but the whole race should be like end of Canada or end of Valencia for Schumi/Webber). What was pole a 1:38 something, and what laps were we seeing start to finish, 1:44? IT doesn't matter if you can't get pole because you can't get in the low 1:38's, in the race your car is capable of 6 seconds faster than it will ever actually go :p

The boring thing is previous races, as fuel comes off the tyres were used, so times came down, everyone got faster. These tyres everyone tries to maintain same pace on the tyres start to finish with a very small decrease in lap times.
 
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I agree with the penalty against Pasta, I just feel Hamilton had a lot to lose with being stubborn - there's no way he could've held Pasta at bay for the remainder of the race.

Hamilton has done well this season fighting his demons to 'push push push', and finally we get to see the real him again. I wondered how long it was before his 'Ill ensure I finish to get points' mentality lasted, and now we know. Still, F1 would be boring if everyone was so level headed and as the old saying goes 'a leopard cant change his spots' (or whatever it is :) )
 
The fact that he hit a steward under yellows and got banned from Monaco proves that, who else has that happened to, who else is rich enough to bribe his way out of the ban?
Yeah, about that. I've searched a lot for confirmation about this (JRS initially posted this, right?) and come across nothing. It was initially reported that he had been banned for life, but that was officially denied a few hours later.

I can't find any information for the whole parental bribe thing. It may of course be true, but without any kind of source or confirmation it just remains conjecture, gossip or hearsay which is a tad unfair. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

Saying that though, Pasta is pretty damn unhinged from what we've seen of him (and simply doesn't seem like a decent guy) and quite frankly is on borrowed time in the sport.
 
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Yeah, about that. I've searched a lot for confirmation about this (JRS initially posted this, right?) and come across nothing. It was initially reported that he had been banned for life, but that was officially denied a few hours later.

I can't find any information for the whole parental bribe thing. It may of course be true, but without any kind of source or confirmation it just remains conjecture, gossip or hearsay which is a tad unfair. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

Saying that though, Pasta is pretty damn unhinged from what we've seen of him (and simply doesn't seem like a decent guy) and quite frankly is on borrowed time in the sport.

Apparently its from a newspaper called Bild, I've seen the story linked on lots of normal F1 sites but not confirmed, but also not denied. Seen other people mention he had another big smash in GP2 when he didn't slow down for another incident. I really haven't paid any attention to much other racing and have no idea if either incident happened. However, today, the Monaco incidents, the smashing Hamilton off before over seemingly being angry about being overtaken. He doesn't like being passed, he doesn't like being held up, and he doesn't pay an awful lot of attention.

His whole attitude is "i'm rich, no one else matters", he reacts angrily to thinks every other driver takes as part of driving without a problem, he's smashed people on purpose multiple times and the stories are frankly completely believable. There is only one reason I can think of for someone that dangerous that often still driving in a top series, and that is money.
 
Been looking for a video off it but there doesn't seem to be one.

Although if he seriously injured a marshall I'm not sure I would want to watch it.

And as for the lack of coverage, I'm fairly sure that if the Monaco governors took the bribe to clear the ban, they would have also ensured it got as little press as possible.
 
Even more is, an unsafe driver is an unsafe driver, if he let Maldonado past down the straight Maldonado could still decide to drive into him, that is all that is relevant.

If Maldonado did what he did on purpose, and I absolutely don't discount that, then he could have done that on a straight even if Hamilton got out of the way. A maniac on the track is a maniac on the track no matter what you do.

He seems to have a temper, and worse, he seems utterly willing to use his car as a weapon when his temper gets the best of him, he really doesn't have any business being out there.

Ultimately people need to realise practice pace means literally nothing, qualifying pace doesn't mean an awful lot either.

I am not some kind of pro-Maldonado person or anything, and I am not defending him for the sake of it, but why do you hold such vitriol against him? Why on earth would he 'decide to drive into him', even if in your example, he had been let through? :confused:

Such emotive language "uses his car as a weapon", christ... What makes you so so certain that he is some rampaging psychopath, as opposed to just an average driver who makes poor decisions?

And people do realise practice and quali pace don't mean much.
 
Such emotive language "uses his car as a weapon", christ... What makes you so so certain that he is some rampaging psychopath, as opposed to just an average driver who makes poor decisions?

The best citations are Monaco Race and Spa Qualifying in 2011, and Monaco again this year when he rammed Perez. But especially the Spa. How he kept his FIA superlicense after Spa I will never know.
 
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I am not some kind of pro-Maldonado person or anything, and I am not defending him for the sake of it, but why do you hold such vitriol against him? Why on earth would he 'decide to drive into him', even if in your example, he had been let through? :confused:

Such emotive language "uses his car as a weapon", christ... What makes you so so certain that he is some rampaging psychopath, as opposed to just an average driver who makes poor decisions?

And people do realise practice and quali pace don't mean much.

As NathanE said, while you could put today down to poor judgement, there are other examples of when he has clearly had the red mist descend and deliberately moved into another driver.

Combine that with his ban and the supposed bribe in Monaco, and the questionable money that is funding his paid seat in F1, and all in all he is a very unlikeable package.
 
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