European Grand Prix 2012, Valencia - Race 8/20

robbiemc said:
But no one here is really disputing that - Pastor is a liability and unpredictable. The issue is surrounding Lewis's inability to asses a situation to see what outcome benefits him most.
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But Hamiltons choices were let Pastor past, or keep him behind for 1 more lap and get more points.

It wasn't let Pastor past or be rammed. No driver should ever be in a situation where they have to choose between letting someone through and being rammed. I know we all like to sit here with hindsight suggesting Hamilton should have known that Pastor was a liability, but its just not the case in the heat of battle. Lewis had a choice between fighting to hold the place, or letting him past and loosing points, nothing more.
 
But no one here is really disputing that - Pastor is a liability and unpredictable. The issue is surrounding Lewis's inability to asses a situation to see what outcome benefits him most.
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That's an unfair point and is based entirely on speculation. You don't know that Hamilton wouldnt have let him get through on a straight (he may not have had a choice anyway). What he certainly wouldn't do is allow a pass on a corner and Maldonado should have known better than to try it there. It just was not a sensible place to pass. What on earth was PM thinking trying to get by there when he could have just gone by with DRS down the straight? I doubt Hamilton was even expecting him to attempt a pass at that point on the track.
 
I think its just wrong to assume that 'be rammed' was, or should ever be, an option that entered Hamilton's mind.

Robbiemc not only appears to be suggesting it was an option, but also that it was the option Hamilton chose by not simply letting Pastor past.
 
Pastor made a mistake, the kerb put him into Lewis he was turning left but went straight, way people post is as if he aimed for Lewis when he simply never. Was plenty of other crappy driving going on yesterday yet it's not an issue on here :D
 
FrankJH said:
but tyre drop off is still crucial to analysing what LH should (or shouldnt) have done yesterday - circumstances arent comparable
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They are for the use of what I was using them for. Not the incidents themselves, but the mentality of posters on here.

It seems that there's a load of peoplke who feel that if the car isn't in absolutely perfect condition or faster than the cars around, you should give up any places when another car comes up behind you.

Thats not racing.

Hamilton had every right to defend the place, and did so, and it was entirely fair, left him space in the braking zone, then took the racing line.
Maldonado would have made it past in in the next lap or so, but he was impatient and mad an absolute arse of getting back on the track and took another driver out.

Maldonado was incredibly lucky not to get a worse penalty. I personally thought it was worse than the Vergne/Kovaleinen accident, that got him a 10 place and 25K fine.
 
smr said:
We've seen from drivers before where they blatantly pull aside to one side of the track and let faster drivers through with the likes of Vettel, Di Resta, Button, Alonso, Webber etc. but I've never seen Lewis let another driver pass him when in the same situation. He's too proud of himself and of retaining his position. If he learned how to swallow his pride he would be in a much better championship position imo.
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If you watched the race, Hamilton did exactly that much earlier on in the race! I think I'm going to have to find a video because I'm constantly pointing this out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18571606

1m in, gives Grosjean a relatively easy pass on the exact same corner. If you look at the highlights he defends but not wildly, he wasn't desperately defending and Maldonado could have found a way though just as Kimi did.
 
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MooMoo444 said:
"Oh.. I'll just let him by because I probably wont keep the place" is not a good mentality to have when you're racing for championships.
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No. I think you will find that in 2012, this is the correct way to go about things.
We saw in one of the early races this year, when Kimi went from a leading position to around 10th in the space of a few laps. At no stage did he fight the people behind him as he knew his car had no fight.

In Canada, Alonso (current championship leader and widely regarded as the best driver in F1), went from 1st to (5th, was it). He was being overtaken every single lap and once again, he wasn't fighting to the point where the driver behind had to make a banzai move.

When you know that your tyres are shot, you either come into pit OR you nurse your tyres. What this means is that you must start driving your own race, regardless of the faster drivers behind. Hamilton did not do this. He started fighting hard, with the car behind, which may have been around 5s/lap faster than him, at the time.

Kimi and Alonso went through exactly the same problem that Hamilton had yesterday. The difference is that Hamilton got himself involved in a crash with a midfield driver. Had it been Vettel or Alonso - I could understand - but Maldo - not worth it.
 
Mr Men said:
Pastor made a mistake, the kerb put him into Lewis he was turning left but went straight, way people post is as if he aimed for Lewis when he simply never. Was plenty of other crappy driving going on yesterday yet it's not an issue on here :D
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pastaface.jpg

Yeah...off the kerb. Turning left. No aiming whatsoever.

When someone decides to drive like that attempting to avoid a collision doesn't even come into it.
 
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Flibster said:
Hamilton had every right to defend the place, and did so, and it was entirely fair, left him space in the braking zone, then took the racing line.
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I agree 100%.
The problem is Hamilton is the one who loses out on points.
So by all means, he can claim the moral high ground, but if he loses the title this year by 5-10 points, we will return to yesterday's incident. Claiming the moral high ground could cost him the title.

A championship driver must learn to pick his battles and understand that some drivers are to be avoided (Maldo, Massa and Kobayashi), while other drivers can be trusted to race closely, lap after lap, without major incident.

Alonso and Vettel both understand this. At present, Hamilton does not.
 
sunama said:
In Canada, Alonso (current championship leader and widely regarded as the best driver in F1), went from 1st to (5th, was it). He was being overtaken every single lap and once again, he wasn't fighting to the point where the driver behind had to make a banzai move.
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Alonso was passed on the straight to lose those places with DRS, he could not defend it at all, he did defend all round the rest of the lap though.
 
Janesy B said:
I did it already earlier on.



How many screen caps of him pointing his steering wheel at Hamilton do you want to see?
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The one with him actually on the kerb bottomed out turning left but the car goes straight, as I said, posting pics before the kerb and after the kerb is really not what I am saying :) Sky showed it plenty in slow motion.
 
neverender said:
Yeah...off the kerb. Turning left. No aiming whatsoever.

When someone decides to drive like that attempting to avoid a collision doesn't even come into it.
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reminds me of Schumacher versus Villeneuve, only a lot more obvious.

the stewards were a bit bonkers all weekend mind.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8vBJPtxiJA

Watch this and tell me he did not steer his car back onto a point in the track where he knew Hamilton was. His car clearly changes direction completely at 10 seconds where he could so easily have stayed straight and avoid the incident.

I honestly cant believe there's even a suggestion that PM is not at fault here. The closest thing to a sensible comment I've seen is that Hamilton should not have fought him because PM is a liability and he should have realised he would drive into him. And that's saying something.
 
Energizer Bunny said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8vBJPtxiJAThe closest thing to a sensible comment I've seen is that Hamilton should not have fought him because PM is a liability and he should have realised he would drive into him. And that's saying something.
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:p Thank you :)

It is sensible though really... I know it shouldn't be like this but that's the way Pastor is... Unfortunately.
 
He did try and come back on track correct, but he was not aiming for Lewis, once on the kerb he was turning left but the car due to being in the kerb went straight into Lewis, it was a mistake by Pasta nobody has denied that but there was no intent to cause a collision IMO.
 
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