EV general discussion

[ICDP]

That’s really the deciding factor though isn’t it.


For EV to be worthwhile, you must be charging at home a good chunk of the time.


Public chargers are, in my experience, really quite expensive at times. As much as 11x the price compared to charging at home.

Not once has this been disputed and was never the debate. This was always about the difference in typical charging costs for an E-Tron vs an Enyaq. Even on a not so cheap EV tariff it would be about £170 extra per year over 10,000 miles. On one of the cheaper tariffs it would be less than half that.

So about £7 - £14ish (dependent upon tariff) per month extra for purely home charging. Add in an extra ~£13 for a rapid public charge at 70p per kWh and you get an idea how much more it costs to run a crap efficiency EV vs a good efficiency EV.

For most people this means it will cost about £100 - £200 extra per year at most for the charging (again tariff depending). If we assume they are public charging very regularly on a rapid charger… well they need to reevaluate ever having ANY EV in the first place.

 

[bainbridge]

Lots of people at work are getting Nissan Leafs through our employer's lease car offering because it's one of the cheapest.

It seems to be a race to the charge points in the morning, and there are lines of these black Nissan Leafs.

People are adapting to the changes being imposed, I totally get that, but it just feels weird to me.

Today it's all about expressing yourself the way you want, being your true authentic self and not being afraid to stand out from the crowd. Right up until everyone gets into their identical hatchback at the end of the working day and whirrs off down the road sounding like a milk float.

I dunno, I must just be old.

 

[blun]

Lots of people at work are getting Nissan Leafs through our employer's lease car offering because it's one of the cheapest.

It seems to be a race to the charge points in the morning, and there are lines of these black Nissan Leafs.

People are adapting to the changes being imposed, I totally get that, but it just feels weird to me.

Today it's all about expressing yourself the way you want, being your true authentic self and not being afraid to stand out from the crowd. Right up until everyone gets into their identical hatchback at the end of the working day and whirrs off down the road sounding like a milk float.

I dunno, I must just be old.

This is just “people like cheap and free stuff”

The Leaf isn’t a brilliant choice these days, but if it’s cheap enough people will get one. Free work charging is even worse. People earning big salaries will charge at work to save £5 a week compared to charging at home. Sometimes even arguing over chargers or walking over to the car park at lunch time to grab 4 hours free charging. That makes no sense at all but people just can’t resist it because it’s free.

I find this particularly annoying as work charging should be for those that need it (e.g don’t have home charging or visiting from far away). Lots of colleagues have said they’d rather pay for workplace charging so it’s available for those that actually need it.

 

[Journey]

I dunno, I must just be old.

You are 47?

People are adapting to the changes being imposed, I totally get that, but it just feels weird to me.

Imposed? Nothing is being imposed they can all still get an non-EV if they want. Just because you don't want one, and likely have never driven one, doesn't mean other people don't want some benefits? Also are you jealous they get free fuel at work (I assume it is free if there is a race)?

 

[ICDP]

Lots of people at work are getting Nissan Leafs through our employer's lease car offering because it's one of the cheapest.

It seems to be a race to the charge points in the morning, and there are lines of these black Nissan Leafs.

People are adapting to the changes being imposed, I totally get that, but it just feels weird to me.

Today it's all about expressing yourself the way you want, being your true authentic self and not being afraid to stand out from the crowd. Right up until everyone gets into their identical hatchback at the end of the working day and whirrs off down the road sounding like a milk float.

I dunno, I must just be old.

And getting forgetful in your old age?

Years ago I remember lines of white Mondeos outside the accountancy firm I worked for in the very affluent Queens University area of Belfast. There were loads of 3 floor Victorian style homes that were converted to offices. Accountants, software developers, solicitors etc. All of them getting tax breaks on company cars.

Then at one point it was loads of black or white BMW 3 series lined up.

I see nothing has changed as people go for whatever is cheapest to save a few quid.

Edit: Wow this really did make me feel old thinking back. Almost 30 years ago in my mid to late 20s and meeting loads of young female students in local bars after work. Good times… when a tablet was something you took for a headache and a Mobile phone had its own suitcase for a battery.

 

[Nemiyen]

This is just “people like cheap and free stuff”

The Leaf isn’t a brilliant choice these days, but if it’s cheap enough people will get one. Free work charging is even worse. People earning big salaries will charge at work to save £5 a week compared to charging at home. Sometimes even arguing over chargers or walking over to the car park at lunch time to grab 4 hours free charging. That makes no sense at all but people just can’t resist it because it’s free.

I find this particularly annoying as work charging should be for those that need it (e.g don’t have home charging or visiting from far away). Lots of colleagues have said they’d rather pay for workplace charging so it’s available for those that actually need it.

I keep thinking exactly the same! I stroll up to work at about 9:25 some days (flexi time is great!) but when I need to charge I'll be in for about 7:30am. Those 2 hours early do build up my flexi and I do get stuff done before people bug me but damn... I could work at McDonalds for 2 hours, get £22 and that more than covers me electric cost for the week with about £14 left over!

Edit: I just don't have a charger at home yet and I'm a tight yorkshireman who is waiting for cheaper or free charge point installs to come along! £1.5k to install just annoys me lol. So, up at 6:30am it is for free charging.

 

[China Man]

£1.5k for EV charging point install? I paid £500 with Octopus a few years ago, price increased so much ? Crazy times.

 

[ICDP]

£1.5k for EV charging point install? I paid £500 with Octopus a few years ago, price increased so much ? Crazy times.

I think it’s the loss of the grant. Though the £1.5k also includes a charger of course.

I do know someone who bought an old PodPoint solo 2 charger from eBay and had it installed by a local electrician for £450 all in. They are even cheaper now and perfect for those not in need of the smart chargers for the weird tariffs. The PodPoint solo 2 still has WiFi and can be controlled via app for preferred charging times and stopping/starting a charge.

 

[blun]

Buying a good charger like an Ohme pro costs around £450 and getting a good local electrician to install should be about £300 unless you have a particularly complex install.

I don’t expect we’ll see the return of subsidies for home chargers now.

Would definitely recommend getting one though. Refuelling at home for nearly free is one of the best EV benefits.

 

[bainbridge]

You are 47?


Imposed? Nothing is being imposed they can all still get an non-EV if they want. Just because you don't want one, and likely have never driven one, doesn't mean other people don't want some benefits? Also are you jealous they get free fuel at work (I assume it is free if there is a race)?

Just turned 48

The changes totally are imposed. What I was referring to is the government mandate on all cars becoming electric. I know we're not there yet, and the government are moving the goal posts, but manufacturing has changed accordingly and indeed are being targeted on supplying BEVs or facing fines.

Nobody is putting a gun to my colleagues' heads to get a BEV, but the company car scheme offerings are all about BEVs.

I'm not jealous over colleagues getting free fuel, our office is three miles from my home and tbh I don't even know how much my commuting costs are (when I drive to work rather than walk or cycle) and I genuinely don't care

 

[ICDP]

These changes are 100% being imposed in a slow methodical manner and I’m absolutely delighted.

 

[Nemiyen]

Buying a good charger like an Ohme pro costs around £450 and getting a good local electrician to install should be about £300 unless you have a particularly complex install.

I don’t expect we’ll see the return of subsidies for home chargers now.

Would definitely recommend getting one though. Refuelling at home for nearly free is one of the best EV benefits.

This was going to be my backup option as the online quotes were coming back quite expensive.

My first option was a commando install from a 30a fuse and then buying a juicebooster for my car that goes from a commando socket to a type 2 ev charger one. This would be about £300 install costs, maybe, and then a £300 second hand juice booster.

I'll have to look into some cheaper charge points too as they might be coming up cheap if people are going onto new leases and upgrading their charge points.

 

[Journey]

Just turned 48

Damn, I was so close.

Nobody is putting a gun to my colleagues' heads to get a BEV, but the company car scheme offerings are all about BEVs.

Well they can opt for anything I'd guess, but I am sure they want to pay less BIK tax, so if you see a Tesla Model 3 that costs you £70 per month, or a BMW 320i that costs you £250 per month, it's not a hard choice unless you either love BMW's, or want to spend more?

I'm not jealous over colleagues getting free fuel, our office is three miles from my home and tbh I don't even know how much my commuting costs are (when I drive to work rather than walk or cycle) and I genuinely don't care

I agree I walk/cycle 3/5 miles each way some days, others at home. Still can't complain that in the last 4.5 years I have spent under £600 'fuelling' the car for all the trips we have done including summer holidays and such.

Are you against having an EV, or just not actually considered one seriously?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Just turned 48

The changes totally are imposed. What I was referring to is the government mandate on all cars becoming electric. I know we're not there yet, and the government are moving the goal posts, but manufacturing has changed accordingly and indeed are being targeted on supplying BEVs or facing fines.

Nobody is putting a gun to my colleagues' heads to get a BEV, but the company car scheme offerings are all about BEVs.

I'm not jealous over colleagues getting free fuel, our office is three miles from my home and tbh I don't even know how much my commuting costs are (when I drive to work rather than walk or cycle) and I genuinely don't care

If you’re 48, you’ll be 58 in late 2034, you could buy a brand new PHEV and conceivably run it, never plugging it in, beyond 2050 and at that point it will not be long until it’s time to hang up your driving gloves.

I mean you might have problems finding fuel in the quantities you need to run a petrol car full time at that point but you could have you really wanted to.

 

[floatindolphin]

Anyone run their own limited company have experience of buying an EV and offsetting the whole cost against the first year?

Have I got that right? Say the car cost £40,000 and my company brought in £100,000. I’d only pay tax on £60,000?

Also my ltd company can pay for a home charger and insurance too?

Sounds great!

I only set my company up a month ago. I assume I’ll be stopped by that?


Quite fancy a Polestar2!

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Anyone run their own limited company have experience of buying an EV and offsetting the whole cost against the first year?

Have I got that right? Say the car cost £40,000 and my company brought in £100,000. I’d only pay tax on £60,000?

Also my ltd company can pay for a home charger and insurance too?

Sounds great!

Speak to your accountant/tax advisor.

I only set my company up a month ago. I assume I’ll be stopped by that?

Nope.

Quite fancy a Polestar2!

Nice cars, go for it (after speaking to your accountant/tax advisor to make sure what you are doing is within the rules).

 

[bainbridge]

Damn, I was so close.



Well they can opt for anything I'd guess, but I am sure they want to pay less BIK tax, so if you see a Tesla Model 3 that costs you £70 per month, or a BMW 320i that costs you £250 per month, it's not a hard choice unless you either love BMW's, or want to spend more?



I agree I walk/cycle 3/5 miles each way some days, others at home. Still can't complain that in the last 4.5 years I have spent under £600 'fuelling' the car for all the trips we have done including summer holidays and such.

Are you against having an EV, or just not actually considered one seriously?

I'm not against one, but there are some big changes involved and while I try to be adaptable, I'm admittedly burying my head in the sand a bit when it comes to BEVs.

Both my partner and I like manual gearboxes. She's driven an auto on the odd occasion without incident, but doesn't like them. I've driven autos a fair bit and while their simplicity is unarguable, they just don't engage me like a manual does.

I do the repairs and maintenance on our petrol cars and, while I'm no expert, after 30 years of doing what I can myself, I'm pretty handy with the spanners. If our next car is BEV it will almost certainly be a lease car because we cannot afford to buy a new BEV outright. I won't be able to tinker with it.

The Mrs is petrified of scratching a lease car and point blank does not want one for that reason. Her ethos is if she owns it and scratches it, she can decide whether to get it done or not!

She also does not like the idea of charging en route on long journeys. I have a little MX5 that I use for commuting and track days, and weekends away and road trips for us both, Her argument against her car being BEV is that she prefers hatchbacks and that will be the car needed for the suitcases for an airport journey (Heathrow/Gatwick from our home in Bristol).

We have a double driveway in front of our garage so the location of a charge point wouldn't be an issue, but our consumer unit is in a weird location in the hallway above and to the left of or front door. I think the wiring would then need to go from here along the wall past our kitchen to the garage. I'm funny about wires showing and don't want them going across the front of the house. This is actually something that I should investigate to find out what the options are for routing the wiring out of view.

Having written all this and taking into account something @b0rn2sk8 said, I think the following might be workable:

1. Get a charge point planned to arrange a neat install and get it fitted.

2. Buy a used PHEV as the Mrs's car. She can get used to an auto properly, she can also get used to plugging it in to charge it for her commute (3 miles) and on an airport run we can burn petrol. I can get my spanners out and start learning a bit about EVs. Not that I'd fiddle with high voltage electrics, but at least I can do the running gear stuff and learn about the new technology.

3 Once the Mrs is happy with an auto, we could maybe look at a longer range BEV.

Simple

 

[Journey]

Both my partner and I like manual gearboxes. She's driven an auto on the odd occasion without incident, but doesn't like them.

A BEV has no gear box (most of them), so there can be no incidents anyhow. Not sure why for commuting, and going to the airport etc. why an auto/none wouldn't be preferable, track days I get it.

I do the repairs and maintenance on our petrol cars and, while I'm no expert, after 30 years of doing what I can myself, I'm pretty handy with the spanners. If our next car is BEV it will almost certainly be a lease car because we cannot afford to buy a new BEV outright. I won't be able to tinker with it.

What do you consider tinkering? You can still do repairs to the brakes, suspension, change the pollen filter, and many other things, but there is just less to tinker with/go wrong. I am sure a car that needs less maintenance is better than one that needs more. If you take a Tesla as an example they have no maintenance requirements at all even to keep the warranty.

Also why would you buy a new BEV, not a nearly new or used the same way as you would an ICE car? There are loads of BEV's that are going for bargains these days, and lots of the mare new and still ins warranty.

The Mrs is petrified of scratching a lease car and point blank does not want one for that reason. Her ethos is if she owns it and scratches it, she can decide whether to get it done or not!

So you can't have a scratch repaired? If a lease costs 25% less than say buying it for the duration you intended to have it, and you lose 5% of that saving at the end doing the repairs then what difference does it matter. Sounds more like lack or knowledge of leasing than anything else.

She also does not like the idea of charging en route on long journeys. I have a little MX5 that I use for commuting and track days, and weekends away and road trips for us both, Her argument against her car being BEV is that she prefers hatchbacks and that will be the car needed for the suitcases for an airport journey (Heathrow/Gatwick from our home in Bristol).

What is her idea of charging on a long route? How long is long, 50 miles, 500 miles? Almost all the hatchback BEV's are bigger internally than the ICE equivalates. PHEV's are smaller for the most part. 200 mile round trip to Heathrow?

We have a double driveway in front of our garage so the location of a charge point wouldn't be an issue, but our consumer unit is in a weird location in the hallway above and to the left of or front door. I think the wiring would then need to go from here along the wall past our kitchen to the garage. I'm funny about wires showing and don't want them going across the front of the house. This is actually something that I should investigate to find out what the options are for routing the wiring out of view.

Consumer unit isn't relevant, it is where your meter is that matters, as they just run a dedicated CU off that if required. Also you could probably just use a 3-pin plug for the amount for miles you do by the sounds of it.

3 Once the Mrs is happy with an auto, we could maybe look at a longer range BEV.

I suggest you go and test drive a few BEV's and get over this gearbox thing, some will even loan you one for a weekend, so you can take it on a long journey and test charging it etc.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Not sure why for commuting, and going to the airport etc. why an auto/none wouldn't be preferable, track days I get it.

I prefer driving a manual in all conditions. It just engages me with the drive better. Helps me feel more alert and aware of what’s going on.


It’s nothing to do with driving on a track and everything to do with feeling connected to the machine I’m operating.


So I can see why the OP would say this.




It’s why hydraulic steering is better in all situations - you just have a better idea of what’s going on with the car




I’ve got 2 autos atm, both because everyone raved about the gearboxes (ZF8 and PDK).


I’m actively looking at moving my Porsche to a manual and if I wasn’t cost cutting by going BEV, I’d be looking to get a manual 320d with the same spec if I could.



That being said BEVs are the best example of an “auto” as you don’t get annoying gear changes from the gearbox.

 

[Simon]

Yeah you are always in the right gear.