EV general discussion

[lordrobs]

Well they can opt for anything I'd guess, but I am sure they want to pay less BIK tax, so if you see a Tesla Model 3 that costs you £70 per month, or a BMW 320i that costs you £250 per month, it's not a hard choice unless you either love BMW's, or want to spend more?

The problem is that BIK tempts people into the wrong tool for the job. I used to have a 2.0 diesel as a company car. Perfect for hacking up and down the motorway for my job. Then diesels became the work of Satan himself because VW got caught cheating emissions tests.

So then I ended up in a 1.4 petrol when it came to change cars. It's not as good for motorway work and it uses more fuel while doing so.

Then WLTP happened and my colleague had to get a car. He ended up in a 3 cylinder 1.0 petrol to hack up and down the motorway in. He uses about the same amount of fuel as me but has a worse time while doing so.

My next car will be a "worst of both worlds" PHEV. It will almost definitely use more fuel than my current car because I stupidly chased ultimate BIK savings from what was suitable, acceptable to the company and in budget. The right tool for the job is still that 2.0 diesel I had nearly 6 years ago.

It's not much more of a leap to people getting all excited over a brand new EV for the monthly cost of a Burger King meal even though they have no suitable means of charging the thing.

So you are right, there is still choice (in many cases) but people's natural reluctance to give away cash to the tax man is one hell of an influencing factor.

 

[BaZ87]

Anyone run their own limited company have experience of buying an EV and offsetting the whole cost against the first year?

Have I got that right? Say the car cost £40,000 and my company brought in £100,000. I’d only pay tax on £60,000?

Also my ltd company can pay for a home charger and insurance too?

Sounds great!

I only set my company up a month ago. I assume I’ll be stopped by that?


Quite fancy a Polestar2!

Providing the car is new and was bought outright and not leased then yes, you can deduct the full amount from your profits. The company could also pay for your charger and insurance too. You would have to pay BIK tax though and the company would have to pay corporation tax if and when you sold the car too.

 

[Homer-Simpson]

I've got an Ioniq 5N coming in about 4 weeks. Obviously looks are a personal preference. For me, it was between an i5 m40, EV6 GT and the 5N. I thought the 5N looked the best as I couldn't get on with the front of the i5 and the rear of the EV6. However in reality, a few months in it'll be driving experience that makes the car and the 5N is miles ahead there.

Have you taken delivery yet? If so, what are your thoughts about it. Really interested to hear from other UK owners and anything they would suggest for someone new to EVs.

 

[blun]

The whole gearbox discussion shows how much work is needed for people to understand EVs better.

Describing them as an auto isn’t good as people associate that with auto gearboxes, rather than “there just are no gears”.

You’re far more in control compared to a manual or an auto as there’s no “wrong gear at the wrong moment”.

 

[Calpol]

Providing the car is new and was bought outright and not leased then yes, you can deduct the full amount from your profits. The company could also pay for your charger and insurance too. You would have to pay BIK tax though and the company would have to pay corporation tax if and when you sold the car too.

It's slightly more nuanced I believe- although I am not a tax expert
The car has to be new or at least in HMRCs view which seems to include pre-reg, low mileage demo.
I think you also have to take into account any non business mileage you do so for example if you are 50:50 private:business then you can only claim half the tax relief.
You may have to pay a balancing charge when you sell the car - so if you sell it for £18,000 then you will incur a corp tax liability on the sale amount. ( as mentioned above)
I recommend you speak with your accountant.

 

[BaZ87]

It's slightly more nuanced I believe- although I am not a tax expert
The car has to be new or at least in HMRCs view which seems to include pre-reg, low mileage demo.
I think you also have to take into account any non business mileage you do so for example if you are 50:50 private:business then you can only claim half the tax relief.
You may have to pay a balancing charge when you sell the car - so if you sell it for £18,000 then you will incur a corp tax liability on the sale amount. ( as mentioned above)
I recommend you speak with your accountant.

Yea, I mentioned it must be new. I didn't think personal use would effect what could be claimed in capital allowances, just VAT (I could just be confusing what you can claim with cars vs commercial vehicles too) but you could be right, certainly if it's a single person limited company as they're essentially treated as self employed.

edit: Just read up a bit on this and definitely speak to your accountant @floatindolphin. From what I understand personal mileage only affects sole traders and partnerships, not companies with BIK being charged to the individual instead. If you're a one man band company, you could be treated as a sole trader though.

 

[Capt Doufos]

So, what is wrong with an Audi e-tron 55? We have been looking at a larger car and had come to settle on something like a 2019/2020 Rav4, but yesterday I discovered I could get a newer, lower milage, more boot space e-tron for less money. We ruled out Q5's as I really don't want to spend that much but the e-trons are around £10k less for a comparable spec/year.

>90% of our driving is <30miles with maybe once or twice a year UK trips potentially over 200 miles plus driving when you get there. I thing ev would be OK but range anxiety would be a thing. Everything I read suggests it's not that big a deal to stop somewhere 30 mins and get another large chunk of charge.

 

[blun]

So, what is wrong with an Audi e-tron 55? We have been looking at a larger car and had come to settle on something like a 2019/2020 Rav4, but yesterday I discovered I could get a newer, lower milage, more boot space e-tron for less money. We ruled out Q5's as I really don't want to spend that much but the e-trons are around £10k less for a comparable spec/year.

>90% of our driving is <30miles with maybe once or twice a year UK trips potentially over 200 miles plus driving when you get there. I thing ev would be OK but range anxiety would be a thing. Everything I read suggests it's not that big a deal to stop somewhere 30 mins and get another large chunk of charge.

Nothing wrong with the e-tron at all - it is a brilliant car. It is not the most energy efficient (see discussion on previous page) but if charging mainly at home it will cost peanuts to run.

Range on a long trip isn’t amazing but it charges really fast and public rapid charging is now good enough and getting better.

A friend has similar use case to you (short trips with a few long trips per year) and has the small battery e-tron, he’s been delighted with it.

Service/repair costs will be more like the Q5 than a Rav4 but you could put some of that money you saved (plus all the fuel savings) aside in case needed.

 

[ICDP]

Or for similar money an I-Pace. Though the Audi customer service is better by a long shot. Just make sure to purchase an extended official warranty.

 

[Capt Doufos]

Thanks, extended warranties seem to be around £650 a year. Is that considered worth it? The batteries and motors have an 8 or 10 year warranty I believe? The air suspension scares me a bit. What is servicing even like on an EV? Surely there is a lot less to do, or are there new things that have to be done? Only things I can think that would be the same is cabin filters, steering fluids, brake fluids. Seems they are 20k or 2 years.

 

[bainbridge]

Novice BEV question incoming:

On a TV ad I noticed that, to my initial surprise, the combined range and motorway figures were lower than the urban figures.

I waited for another inevitable BEV advert and looked out for the mileage blurb and again, the city mileage was best, followed by combined.

So, by my logic and pitiful amount of research, am I right in saying that this is because a BEV (motor) in stationary traffic is using zero power, but at highway speeds it's fighting wind and resistance and with no selectable gear ratios the motor is just whizzing away?

I don't track my fuel costs (petrol) other than rough man maths at the pump, as you can probably tell.

 

[chanjy]

So, what is wrong with an Audi e-tron 55? We have been looking at a larger car and had come to settle on something like a 2019/2020 Rav4, but yesterday I discovered I could get a newer, lower milage, more boot space e-tron for less money. We ruled out Q5's as I really don't want to spend that much but the e-trons are around £10k less for a comparable spec/year.

>90% of our driving is <30miles with maybe once or twice a year UK trips potentially over 200 miles plus driving when you get there. I thing ev would be OK but range anxiety would be a thing. Everything I read suggests it's not that big a deal to stop somewhere 30 mins and get another large chunk of charge.

I love the e-Tron and would have bought one but a used I-Pace was a better deal at the time. Having had another kid since I got the car, I wish I had waited!

The charging is a non issue on long trips as long as you're not one of those travelling reps needing to be everywhere in a super hurry, the charge curve is very flat so if you find an ultra-rapid charger you will be topped up quite quickly.

 

[Simon]

Novice BEV question incoming:

On a TV ad I noticed that, to my initial surprise, the combined range and motorway figures were lower than the urban figures.

I waited for another inevitable BEV advert and looked out for the mileage blurb and again, the city mileage was best, followed by combined.

So, by my logic and pitiful amount of research, am I right in saying that this is because a BEV (motor) in stationary traffic is using zero power, but at highway speeds it's fighting wind and resistance and with no selectable gear ratios the motor is just whizzing away?

I don't track my fuel costs (petrol) other than rough man maths at the pump, as you can probably tell.

Average speed is the main factor

 

[gailjon]

The problem is that BIK tempts people into the wrong tool for the job. I used to have a 2.0 diesel as a company car. Perfect for hacking up and down the motorway for my job. Then diesels became the work of Satan himself because VW got caught cheating emissions tests.

So then I ended up in a 1.4 petrol when it came to change cars. It's not as good for motorway work and it uses more fuel while doing so.

Then WLTP happened and my colleague had to get a car. He ended up in a 3 cylinder 1.0 petrol to hack up and down the motorway in. He uses about the same amount of fuel as me but has a worse time while doing so.

My next car will be a "worst of both worlds" PHEV. It will almost definitely use more fuel than my current car because I stupidly chased ultimate BIK savings from what was suitable, acceptable to the company and in budget. The right tool for the job is still that 2.0 diesel I had nearly 6 years ago.

It's not much more of a leap to people getting all excited over a brand new EV for the monthly cost of a Burger King meal even though they have no suitable means of charging the thing.

So you are right, there is still choice (in many cases) but people's natural reluctance to give away cash to the tax man is one hell of an influencing factor.

Of course, it is the 'right tool for the job' if emissions and health of us and our children are removed from the equation. It was not just VW that borked diesels, it was all the manufacturers. There is no doubt that diesels are worse for the environment in terms of particulates than any petrol and so the tax man is right, in my opinion, to get the highest distance drivers into EVs as quickly as possible.

 

[danlightbulb]

Novice BEV question incoming:

On a TV ad I noticed that, to my initial surprise, the combined range and motorway figures were lower than the urban figures.

I waited for another inevitable BEV advert and looked out for the mileage blurb and again, the city mileage was best, followed by combined.

So, by my logic and pitiful amount of research, am I right in saying that this is because a BEV (motor) in stationary traffic is using zero power, but at highway speeds it's fighting wind and resistance and with no selectable gear ratios the motor is just whizzing away?

I don't track my fuel costs (petrol) other than rough man maths at the pump, as you can probably tell.

Yes this was a surprise to me as well, so used to petrol cars doing better mpg on motorway that I didn't think it would be different for an EV.

With the charging being so much cheaper than fuel though it's a non issue how efficient it is.

 

[squerble]

Novice BEV question incoming:

So, by my logic and pitiful amount of research, am I right in saying that this is because a BEV (motor) in stationary traffic is using zero power, but at highway speeds it's fighting wind and resistance and with no selectable gear ratios the motor is just whizzing away?

Yep, that's about the size of it. Roughly speaking for a BEV, the faster you go, the more electricity you use. Somewhere around 25-30mph is typical the most efficient and you just start losing efficiency as you climb above this. Noticeable if you sit at 65mph on the motorway instead of 70mph - you could gain another 10-15 miles of range for only a couple of minutes time penalty.

 

[Simon]

Yes this was a surprise to me as well, so used to petrol cars doing better mpg on motorway that I didn't think it would be different for an EV.

With the charging being so much cheaper than fuel though it's a non issue how efficient it is.

ICE get more efficient (to a point) at higher speeds

 

[m4rmite]

Some facts rather than opinions, it is using American mpg though.

What is the Best Eco Speed? The Fuel-Efficient Guide to Saving Money on Gas - 33rd Square

About 55 miles per hour is the optimum speed for most cars. Kick it up to 65 mph and you are 8 percent less efficient; at 80 mph you are 28 percent less efficient.

www.33rdsquare.com

I once drove 100 miles to weston super mare in an octavia 110bhp diesel(2004 model)
I reset the trip/mpg counter as i started the motorway and off when I turned off.

On way there, no hold ups on the motorway as it was a Sunday, I did 70mph and got 56mpg
On the way back I set it to 56mpg and got 67mpg.

So personally, in an Octavia, speed does affect an ice efficiency.

Plus I have found a way of breaking the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Read like an opinion to me. What point were you trying to make?

Did you literally just Google 'best eco speed' or something? Jesus what a gopher.

Also did you ever considering driving to Weston Super Mare might be down hill from where you live, you know, cos its a seaside town.

 

[panthro]

How are you finding it?

I'm looking at buying a 3-4 year old etron 55. They seem like a real bargain.

I cancelled it in the end. Decided to go down a different route.
I would still consider an eTron 55 but not the 50.