EV general discussion

ICDP said:
Efficiency matters of course, especially if your EV is powered by a fossil fuel sourced grid. But once you go with a green energy tariff this becomes almost moot.

The Enyaq is a nice EV, is your an 80 or a 60?

An Enyaq is about 25% more efficient than an older E-Tron 55 and about 20% more than the newer E-Tron 55.

When you bought your Enyaq did you consider the Model 3? It’s about 20% more efficient than your Enyaq? Or did you meet an arbitrary minimum efficiency and think “good enough”?

If we put those in MPG terms we get

Model 3 ~180 mpg
Enyaq ~ 140 mpg
E-Tron ~ 105 - 115 mpg
I-Pace ~ 115 mpg

None of those figures are remotely close to ICE for inefficiency and nowhere near the level of pollution.
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I did a lot of research when I got the car - 1) practicality - 2 kids and their stuff 2) efficiency and price

My car has Long Term efficiency of 4.1m/kwh atm. I wouldn’t be very happy if it was shown to be 2.5m/kwh as it probably makes very little financial sense when compared to our old car - the Kodiaq.

Based on the average capped leccy rate over the last 12months 2.5m/kwh will equate to £5.6 for 50miles. Which isn’t great. If you have been on octopus tracker or similar tariff then your cost would be £3.6. People mention EV tariff but those tariff will result in higher cost for domestic use so you have to take an average cost on those unit rates as you are paying more for turning on the lights or cooking food etc etc.
 
pc-guy said:
I did a lot of research when I got the car - 1) practicality - 2 kids and their stuff 2) efficiency and price

My car has Long Term efficiency of 4.1m/kwh atm. I wouldn’t be very happy if it was shown to be 2.5m/kwh as it probably makes very little financial sense when compared to our old car - the Kodiaq.

Based on the average capped leccy rate over the last 12months 2.5m/kwh will equate to £5.6 for 50miles. Which isn’t great. If you have been on octopus tracker or similar tariff then your cost would be £3.6. People mention EV tariff but those tariff will result in higher cost for domestic use so you have to take an average cost on those unit rates as you are paying more for turning on the lights or cooking food etc etc.
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I agree with the premise but even here in N. Ireland at 15.5p per kWh the I-Pace is a lot cheaper to run than an ICE by about £80 per month. An Enyag would save me another £10 per month and hardly the kind of money that is make or break on EV choices. At least for me.

Your Enyaq is not a cheap EV and frankly if £5 per month on a cheap rate is make or break, you should have got a cheap 10 year old ICE people carrier. Especially when you consider you will be hit for considerably more when the luxury car VED kicks in next year.
 
10k miles at 2.5 miles/kWh is £280 / year
10k miles at 4 miles/kWh is £175 / year

If talking about £20k plus cars that’s an insignificant amount of difference.

It’s not like with an ICE where:

10k miles at 25mpg is £2350
10k miles at 50mpg is £1175
 
ICDP said:
I agree with the premise but even here in N. Ireland at 15.5p per kWh the I-Pace is a lot cheaper to run than an ICE by about £80 per month. An Enyag would save me another £10 per month and hardly the kind of money that is make or break on EV choices. At least for me.

Your Enyaq is not a cheap EV and frankly if £5 per month on a cheap rate is make or break, you should have got a cheap 10 year old ICE people carrier. Especially when you consider you will be hit for considerably more when the luxury car VED kicks in next year.
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Luxury car tax is applied at point of sale - it will kick in next year and doesnt apply retrospectively.

The only VED applies is the standard rate.

I-pace is a more expensive EV than Enyaq, not sure how it makes more economical sense than choosing something that is more efficient and cheaper. I think ipace is around 3m/kwh at best, that’s 25% down on my car. Depend on usage, it will be more than a mere £5/month. If a car is 2.5m/kwh that is nearly twice much running cost. Albeit it will still be more economical than most ICE cars. But if you heavily rely on public charger then that’s a pretty rough deal. I do think there is a good portion of EV users do rely on public chargers so those efficiency does matter.

A car with 4m/kwh will still be fair reasonable at say 35p/kwh (Tesla rate). Where 2.5m/kwh might as well be driving ICE.
 
You keep mentioning tariffs and costs that are not indicative because the vast majority of EV owners are not on the capped electricity rates, nor do they use public chargers all the time.

Blum already did the numbers for you earlier for someone doing 10k miles and it’s less than £10 per month at home EV tariff rates between an E-Tron and an Enyaq.

You also finally got the point that someone looking at a used E-Tron is not going to be giving a crap about an extra £5 - £10 a month for charging costs. I also cannot fathom how anyone would own or lease any EV worth £46k plus and then act like £10 a month on the charging is an issue. Or the occasional cost of public charging would be worth remotely giving a crap about.

My I-Pace from 0% to 100% would cost me £50 for about 250 miles at a rapid charger in Ireland. Your Enyaq would cost £37.50 for the same distance. I will genuinely cry myself to sleep tonight thinking about the immense saving I am missing out on. ;)

A similar sized petrol ICE would cost about £40 for the same distance covered and that’s being generous.

Also, thanks for the clarity on the luxury VED. That helps me when I am looking a replacement for my I-Pace lease next May. I was already eliminating £40k plus EVs from my shortlist to avoid the VED. Seems I needn’t worry as long as I buy used.
 
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kristmace said:
How is it?

I've seen the good lease deals for these but I do 15k miles a year so the quotes I'm getting shoot up when I put that in.
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Yes, original deal I saw on comparison site was for 5k/year but ended up being 8k/year which is more than enough for me.

Beyond a couple of short trips I've not had much of chance to take it for a spin yet. Probably need to spend a good half hour at some point getting the infotainment setup fully to my liking in terms of layout, shortcuts etc. Lease deal was for the base spec but that has plenty of equipment as standard so I don't feel like I'm missing much - things like HUD, 360 parking cam and of course Android Auto/CarPlay are all present. Even gimmicky stuff like massage seats.
I'm coming from a C-class estate and while this is marginally bigger, it feels a lot more spacious on the inside - especially the boot (the C-class lost some boot space to the hybrid battery). Touchscreen interface is very responsive so no issues on that front.
Looks wise it's fine, silver wasn't my first choice but is OK. It does the EV thing of trying to hide some of the bulk by making the lower part black which isn't really fooling anyone.
Overall it seems like a nice upgrade, and given my usage over the last few years I'll probably only end up having to charge away from home a handful of times over the length of the lease.
 
pc-guy said:
People mention EV tariff but those tariff will result in higher cost for domestic use so you have to take an average cost on those unit rates as you are paying more for turning on the lights or cooking food etc etc.
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Wut?
 
I'm not sure its even true, even without home batteries, Intelligent Octopus Go can be cheaper than the price cap for the electric for your home with only mild load shifting, if that's even needed.

The price delta between Intelligent Go and price cap is 1.5p/kwh during the day. So for every 1kwh you use in the 6 hour cheap period you can use up to 12 during the day and it still cost you less than the price cap tariff.

If you are at 13kwh/day, there is a good chance your base load alone for the 6 hour cheap window will get you over the 1kwh/day line - chuck a dishwasher into the mix and you are laughing.
 
ICDP said:
They are pointing out that EV tariffs in many cases have higher standing charges and day unit rates. It is true in some UK locations (here in N. Ireland for example) but still worth being on an EV tariff if you do more than about 5000 miles per year.
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I'm well aware, I was pointing out that it may be worth being on an EV tariff regardless given the price delta is only 1.5p/kwh on the day rate.

The standing charges are identical as well.
 
blun said:
10k miles at 2.5 miles/kWh is £280 / year
10k miles at 4 miles/kWh is £175 / year

If talking about £20k plus cars that’s an insignificant amount of difference.

It’s not like with an ICE where:

10k miles at 25mpg is £2350
10k miles at 50mpg is £1175
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Not sure how your maths works out.

10k 2.5m/kwh is over 4000kwh without taking 10% AC-DC.
10k 4m/kwh is 2500kwh

Doesn’t take much a rocket science to work out the final figures of leccy cost…

Clearly my earlier mention that using pure night time EV rate to work out the commuting cost is not the correct method of assessment not taken root as you are not factoring in day time hike of leccy rates.

10k yearly mileage is comparable for standard 3 bed house leccy use so the night rate and day rating should be average. ATM based on most EV tariff that sits at 18p/kwh that’s £720/year for 2.5m/kwh vs £450/year for 4m/kwh.

Cheap motoring and ignoring more expensive house leccy use is another nonsense in EV morning fan world tbh. It doesn’t help to convince people to switch nor does it come across genuine or factual.

£750 vs £1150 and higher insurance premium on EVs you appreciate that there is no or very little incentive to switch to EV if it is 2.5m/kwh.
 
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As posted 4 posts up, the price delta is only 1.5p/kwh on the UK's most popular EV tariff.

The UK average property uses 2700/kwh and even if you assume zero house usage in the cheap period, that is only another £40.50.

If you shift 7.69% of your energy usage to the cheap period the impact of the higher day rate is zero. Ensuring >7.69% of your energy usage being between 23:30 and 05:30 is basically baseload.

At 2700kw/year, 7.69% of your daily energy usage is only 0.57kwh or 0.094kwh per hour - I'd be surprised if your baseload was below 94w.
 
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pc-guy said:
Not sure how your maths works out.

10k 2.5m/kwh is over 4000kwh without taking 10% AC-DC.
10k 4m/kwh is 2500kwh

Doesn’t take much a rocket science to work out the final figures of leccy cost…

Clearly my earlier mention that using pure night time EV rate to work out the commuting cost is not the correct method of assessment not taken root as you are not factoring in day time hike of leccy rates.

10k yearly mileage is comparable for standard 3 bed house leccy use so the night rate and day rating should be average. ATM based on most EV tariff that sits at 18p/kwh that’s £720/year for 2.5m/kwh vs £450/year for 4m/kwh.

Cheap motoring and ignoring more expensive house leccy use is another nonsense in EV morning fan world tbh. It doesn’t help to convince people to switch nor does it come across genuine or factual.

£750 vs £1150 and higher insurance premium on EVs you appreciate that there is no or very little incentive to switch to EV if it is 2.5m/kwh.
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I think he’s assumed a 7p charging rate.

The maths, as far as I can tell, does work out, even if it doesn’t account for efficiency losses.



Also, side note - interestingly my insurance is cheaper moving to an ID 7 compared to a 320d by about £250 a year.
 
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pc-guy said:
Not sure how your maths works out.

10k 2.5m/kwh is over 4000kwh without taking 10% AC-DC.
10k 4m/kwh is 2500kwh

Doesn’t take much a rocket science to work out the final figures of leccy cost…

Clearly my earlier mention that using pure night time EV rate to work out the commuting cost is not the correct method of assessment not taken root as you are not factoring in day time hike of leccy rates.

10k yearly mileage is comparable for standard 3 bed house leccy use so the night rate and day rating should be average. ATM based on most EV tariff that sits at 18p/kwh that’s £720/year for 2.5m/kwh vs £450/year for 4m/kwh.

Cheap motoring and ignoring more expensive house leccy use is another nonsense in EV morning fan world tbh. It doesn’t help to convince people to switch nor does it come across genuine or factual.

£750 vs £1150 and higher insurance premium on EVs you appreciate that there is no or very little incentive to switch to EV if it is 2.5m/kwh.
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Our I-Pace would cost £620 per year insurance for two drivers. Not much more than our iX20 petrol automatic at £460. The yearly charging costs on the I-Pace is about £600 at 15.5p per kWh. That includes 3 or 4 public top up charges per year. For the iX20 the same 10k miles will cost £1800 at current petrol prices and it’s typical 35mpg.

Apologies I edited the insurances costs after checking them.

I-Pace costs £1220 to run for insurance and charging

iX20 costs £2520 including insurance, petrol and VED.

Even a marginally less efficient older E-Tron would still be considerably cheaper to run than a typical equivalent petrol (or even diesel) ICE.

The only way an E-Tron (or any EV) becomes the same runnings costs as an ICE, is if you public charge very regularly. If you home charge with 3 or 4 public charges per year, then it will never be close to ICE costs.
 
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ICDP said:
If you home charge with 3 or 4 public charges per year, then it will never be close to ICE costs.
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That’s really the deciding factor though isn’t it.


For EV to be worthwhile, you must be charging at home a good chunk of the time.


Public chargers are, in my experience, really quite expensive at times. As much as 11x the price compared to charging at home.
 
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