EV general discussion

Journey said:
You could tell this just by looking at them?
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Some you can get it up on screen, others I'm just kind of guessing from estimated range at the current charge percentage which obviously isn't the most accurate but generally gives an idea.

I'm in there all the time (unfortunately)/regular customer so they are happy to let me have a play.
 
Rroff said:
Some you can get it up on screen, others I'm just kind of guessing from estimated range at the current charge percentage which obviously isn't the most accurate but generally gives an idea.

I'm in there all the time (unfortunately)/regular customer so they are happy to let me have a play.
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Sorry to say that the display on the car is totally meaningless, unless you've run a true capacity test you cannot tell at all. At the very least you need to plug in an ODBC dongle and connect it to car scanner/other software to see the SOH, and even then it is wrong a lot of the time. It will also tell you individual cell voltages which you can then check against new values to see if the cells are withing spec. A battery health report is something that is much needed in the used market, but looking at the GoM or in car display is not that, as they will usually just tell you how badly/well it was driven, or that it is winter/summer.
 
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Journey said:
Sorry to say that the display on the car is totally meaningless, unless you've run a true capacity test you cannot tell at all. At the very least you need to plug in an ODBC dongle and connect it to car scanner/other software to see the SOH, and even then it is wrong a lot of the time. It will also tell you individual cell voltages which you can then check against new values to see if the cells are withing spec. A battery health report is something that is much needed in the used market, but looking at the GoM or in car display is not that, as they will usually just tell you how badly/well it was driven, or that it is winter/summer.
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Largely agree but I wouldn't say totally meaningless as long as you know the potential problems with it - especially the older Leafs it often isn't far off the mark.
 
Most cars obscures the state of health information but you may be able to get a reading via the OBD. I think new cars from will be required to report it in the infotainment in the not too distant future, there is certainly talk of it.

IIRC, the only car to present its state of health is the Nissan Leaf and even then you need to decode it a bit to get you a range.

You can work it out the ballpark in a Tesla as its display is based on a flat calculation using the EPA rating for the car at the time it was new.
 
Service mode is on Tesla which measures if for you on next charger 45k and 53k mile cars were 89% and 87.5% respectively (probably supercharged a lot as EV rentals with free SC). Or simply charge the battery from 0-100 and see how much energy the charger uses then take some off for losses for how much went in the battery.
 
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Rroff said:
The range degradation thing is quite frustrating actually - I had a nose at a few EVs a dealer I use regularly had selling (got a load back off lease from the same customer) and it was all over the place with no real rhyme or reason in respect to age or mileage with some having a fair hit to range and others basically still showing same range as new. Like many dealers and garages they aren't upfront with the battery health and often obscure it, especially if it is bad, in the pictures online.
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How did he display the degradation to you?
 
Capt Doufos said:
How do you even get accurate information on this? From my research you can't trust what the car says as they base the range on a number of factors, you would need to drive it for some time. The weather also impacts it. Battery checks and tests have an error margin of +- 10% in the small print of ones I have seen so they are only somewhat useful. There are some stats for % on AC / DC which helps understand maybe how it has been used.
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You need to measure how much charge is in the battery when full and how much charge it takes to fill it.

Driving and weather effect on range is different thing entirely..
 
Rroff said:
Largely agree but I wouldn't say totally meaningless as long as you know the potential problems with it - especially the older Leafs it often isn't far off the mark.
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I doubt in this Scenario they were a much of older leafs off lease. What were they?
 
OspreyO said:
How did he display the degradation to you?
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Depends on the car - the Leafs have a bar display, some have an option in the menu with an estimate, others I'm just guessing off the charge percentage Vs estimated range which as above can be a faulty way to assess it i.e. recent less than optimal usage but often gives you a fair idea.
 
Rroff said:
Depends on the car - the Leafs have a bar display, some have an option in the menu with an estimate, others I'm just guessing off the charge percentage Vs estimated range which as above can be a faulty way to assess it i.e. recent less than optimal usage but often gives you a fair idea.
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So the story you went into a garage with a bunch of random EVs (won't say which cars) off lease and looked at the range and reckon that's a fair idea of degradation?

Imo. It isn't. You've no idea how they been driven which creates the gom estimate. I don't get the point of this anacdote.
 
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OspreyO said:
So the story you went into a garage with a bunch of random EVs (won't say which cars) off lease and looked at the range and reckon that's a fair idea of degradation?

Imo. It isn't. You've no idea how they been driven which creates the gom estimate. I don't get the point of this anacdote.
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I didn't say they were all off lease - they had a bunch back off the same customer - mostly ENV200 and Townstars and a mix of other stuff.
 
Simon said:
Petrol and diesel is 100% recycled so not sure where you going with that one. No one can recycle batteries at scale yet. And SoH drop happens relatively quick 5% battery loss is still 5% range reduction.

Not much Saudi oil makes it to the uk either. Have you heard of the North Sea ?

34p/kwh is on parity with Petrol and they are hardly dotted all over the country. How’s a 34p charger going to help if you are 100miles away
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How is fossil fuel recycled?

Mostly people charge at home. That is going to negate and cost of public charging. If you're are going be to using public charging a lot, just buy a diesel. If fuel cost is significant for you.
 
I've been looking at ev's as a run around, but new costs I just unable to afford.(Goes for ice vehicles aswell, but EVs command and even higher premium)

Looking at the used market I'm fearful the battery will only last 5 minutes.

The Corsa electric seems ok value, but the missus doesn't like the look of it ‍♂️

At some point I acknowledge I'll need to make the jump, I seem to just keep kicking the van down the road.
 
sx_turbo said:
I've been looking at ev's as a run around, but new costs I just unable to afford.(Goes for ice vehicles aswell, but EVs command and even higher premium)

Looking at the used market I'm fearful the battery will only last 5 minutes.

The Corsa electric seems ok value, but the missus doesn't like the look of it ‍♂️

At some point I acknowledge I'll need to make the jump, I seem to just keep kicking the van down the road.
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You can kick that can for a long time yet.
 
Rroff said:
Some of them. I'm intentionally being a bit vague to avoid a much longer post as to the details which are largely irrelevant, it wasn't really relevant to my original post that there was a mix of vehicles.
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Your point seemed to be was that the gom (guess-o-meter) is a good indication of degradation. Across a load of EVs Vans (now random EVs) sitting in a garage.

At best its a ball park and a wide one at that.
 
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OspreyO said:
How is fossil fuel recycled?

Mostly people charge at home. That is going to negate and cost of public charging. If you're are going be to using public charging a lot, just buy a diesel. If fuel cost is significant for you.
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I was replying to journey about 34p being ‘cheap’

Liquid fuel was once a plant. Perfect carbon circle. I don’t know anyone recycling batteries yet. Just like half the recycling councils collect goes to landfill
 
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OspreyO said:
Your point seemed to be was that the gom (guess-o-meter) is a good indication of degradation. Across a load of EVs Vans (now random EVs) sitting in a garage.

At best its a ball park and a wide one at that.
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The wording of my original post kind of gives a hint a few / off lease from same customer as in some being commercial vehicles and being a mixture of vehicles. Nothing has changed in what I'm posting.

Yes there is a fair bit of ball park in play but it isn't that far off the overall story either.
 
Rroff said:
The wording of my original post kind of gives a hint a few / off lease from same customer as in some being commercial vehicles and being a mixture of vehicles. Nothing has changed in what I'm posting.

Yes there is a fair bit of ball park in play but it isn't that far off the overall story either.
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Unless they all had the same route profile and the same driving style, use of heating, etc then it's completely useless as a guide to degradation I'm afraid.

The range estimate is just a guess based on both recent efficiency/usage and available capacity. Unless you hold efficiency exactly the same the capacity bit is a complete unknown and nothing can be inferred from the range estimate.
 
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