EV general discussion

OspreyO said:
If you want a car that's exactly like a petrol car, then just buy a petrol car.

You have to be open minded to doing things differently and want to try it, to switch to an EV successfully.

If you don't want to, then don't. Buy the petrol.
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Best advice ever.

This time last year I was firmly in the ICE camp and with retirement fast approaching and a nice payout we were going to look for a new ICE, maybe Hybrid, that would last us a few years.
Around April last year I started to look if all the EV myths were true eg catching fire, running down to 0% if they were in the snow and obviously it was all BS or vastly over exaggerated.
We then sat down to see if an EV suits our needs - we drive 100 miles a week, the furthest distance will be to airports both 40 miles each way, we have our own drive and so on.
We then compiled a list of 7 EVs but there were mandatory things we wanted which 5 of them didn't have and we chose the winner for us.
I retired but it was a while until my works pension arrived.

The countless memes I hate are those that say EV owners have been conned to follow the agenda etc, I firmly believe not one person in this thread has been conned and did their homework before buying although we may have one who has gone back to ICE (I think).
 
sx_turbo said:
I've been looking at ev's as a run around, but new costs I just unable to afford.(Goes for ice vehicles aswell, but EVs command and even higher premium)

Looking at the used market I'm fearful the battery will only last 5 minutes.

The Corsa electric seems ok value, but the missus doesn't like the look of it ‍♂️

At some point I acknowledge I'll need to make the jump, I seem to just keep kicking the van down the road.
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There's little "need" in terms of the jump at the moment if it doesn't suit you.

Cars like the e 208/2008/corsa are worth looking at like it sounds you already have as they seem to be approaching a point you could almost consider reasonable in price for a circa 4/5 year old car.

Id worry more about battery if you're inclined to keep the car forever than if you tend to work in 3 year or so cycles with the cars (most reputable dealers will give you a battery report anyway), albeit I'd probably write off the majority of the purchase price given how quickly the tech and people's view on "older EVs" could shift
 
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chanjy said:
Unless they all had the same route profile and the same driving style, use of heating, etc then it's completely useless as a guide to degradation I'm afraid.

The range estimate is just a guess based on both recent efficiency/usage and available capacity. Unless you hold efficiency exactly the same the capacity bit is a complete unknown and nothing can be inferred from the range estimate.
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I somewhat agree but in my experience so far if the estimated range for the charge % is poor more often than not the battery has degraded more than average and if it is good any battery degradation is usually negligible.

Obviously sometimes that is purely down to recent circumstances but some brands *cough Nissan* especially it is far more often an indicator than not.
 
Rroff said:
I somewhat agree but in my experience so far if the estimated range for the charge % is poor more often than not the battery has degraded more than average and if it is good any battery degradation is usually negligible.

Obviously sometimes that is purely down to recent circumstances but some brands *cough Nissan* especially it is far more often an indicator than not.
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Do mine after a local high speed run and all the heating on and by your estimate you'd think the battery is at 50%. Whereas it's actually at 98%. Range on another day could be almost double.

I know if I'm doing an early morning 10 run in the cold I'll have the heating and AC on the whole time. Whereas if it's 30 mins run I'll have turned it all down after about 10 mins as Windows will be clear and cabin warmed up.

That will completely mess with the range estimate.

I'm going to assume a van is going to have a much harder charging life than a private car. These vans are basically leafs. With all the same issues. It's not indicative of a private car and not something with new battery tech..

My 2 cents.
 
Simon said:
I was replying to journey about 34p being ‘cheap’

Liquid fuel was once a plant. Perfect carbon circle. I don’t know anyone recycling batteries yet. Just like half the recycling councils collect goes to landfill
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Waiting for used fuel to become a plant then back to oil is a tad more inconvenient than finding a charger.

What the councils do with cardboard boxes has nothing to with batteries.

The web has loads of information about recycling EV batteries. If you can't find anything on the web, that's on you. It's a flat earther mentality if someone can't see it, it doesn't exist.
 
Some people actually write the articles on the web rather than just reading everything and then recycling that!
 
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OspreyO said:
Waiting for used fuel to become a plant then back to oil is a tad more inconvenient than finding a charger.

What the councils do with cardboard boxes has nothing to with batteries.

The web has loads of information about recycling EV batteries. If you can't find anything on the web, that's on you. It's a flat earther mentality if someone can't see it, it doesn't exist.
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It was tongue in cheek. Can’t believe I have to actually explain that oil was once carbon in the air turned to plants then oil then burnt turning back into carbon. Amazing. I literally talk to garages who do battery repairs for a living. Where is this outlet for none working battery parts. Or are you confusing re purposing with recycling ? I’m no Jpaul I don’t search the web for knowledge
 
SexyGreyFox said:
Best advice ever.

This time last year I was firmly in the ICE camp and with retirement fast approaching and a nice payout we were going to look for a new ICE, maybe Hybrid, that would last us a few years.
Around April last year I started to look if all the EV myths were true eg catching fire, running down to 0% if they were in the snow and obviously it was all BS or vastly over exaggerated.
We then sat down to see if an EV suits our needs - we drive 100 miles a week, the furthest distance will be to airports both 40 miles each way, we have our own drive and so on.
We then compiled a list of 7 EVs but there were mandatory things we wanted which 5 of them didn't have and we chose the winner for us.
I retired but it was a while until my works pension arrived.

The countless memes I hate are those that say EV owners have been conned to follow the agenda etc, I firmly believe not one person in this thread has been conned and did their homework before buying although we may have one who has gone back to ICE (I think).
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There are certainly pros and cons to it. Very hard to have a reasoned discussion when people drag dinosaurs into it.

Whatever the merits of an EV vehicle it doesn't operate in a vacuum. If market forces and political lobbying makes a diesel cheaper to run, that will turn it on it's head.

I couldn't justify a new EV when I bought mine so I compromised on range and bought used so I'd lose less when the market fell. I didn't anticipate those new budget EVs, and I didn't anticipate there would so much backward steps by some govts.

But this does mean there are more capable EVs now affordable. But also means the market is even more uncertain. So if I was buying today I'd be looking for used with low mileage and a larger battery. Because I think resale is still an issue.

The legislation is driving people to PHEVs for a variety of reasons and you'd have to consider that. Even though for me BEV or a non hybrid Petrol would be my preferred options.
 
Simon said:
It was tongue in cheek. Can’t believe I have to actually explain that oil was once carbon in the air turned to plants then oil then burnt turning back into carbon. Amazing. I literally talk to garages who do battery repairs for a living. Where is this outlet for none working battery parts. Or are you confusing re purposing with recycling ? I’m no Jpaul I don’t search the web for knowledge
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I just didn't think anyone would be daft enough drag this down to dinosaurs. I stand corrected.

I'm not getting into a discussion with someone who freely admits not researching their opinions and makes out their comments are a joke when called on them. Trying to inform someone who doesn't want to be informed is pointless.

It's just not interesting to me.
 
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Trumps actions could have a big impact on what manufacturers do. It will make European EVs cars unviable in the states. Cars will be unsellable there. Which in turn will have impact on what manufacturers make. Trump could drive us back to 1980s smog and urban pollution. If he stays the distance..
 
OspreyO said:
I just didn't think anyone would be daft enough drag this down to dinosaurs. I stand corrected.

I'm not getting into a discussion with someone who freely admits not researching their opinions and makes out their comments are a joke when called on them. Trying to inform someone who doesn't want to be informed is pointless.

It's just not interesting to me.
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I never mentioned dinosaurs. What is stupid is you jumping over me. When I simply replied to someone’s else’s silly comment about diesel and petrol not being recyclable. All plastic is recyclable yet only 9% is actually recycle globally. Just because something is recyclable doesn’t mean it is recycled. I still really struggle to see the business case for a company to start ‘recycling’ batteries. Aka grinding them up and getting them back to elements to use in anything again. But maybe I didn’t use Google enough for you to enable you to see my point as valid? Like somehow how many Google search’s you do makes your view (aka parrot repeat someone else’s) more reliable ?

Or are you talking about something else and somehow applying it to a battery being recycled ?? Or just taking an opportunity to fire shots cause you got upset in another part of the is forum?

Not interesting to you? Yet you have remembered sometime for over a month, interesting. Feel sorry for those who hold grudges, must be a sad world. Also interesting you didn’t really have a point to make here


PS I have and EV and ICE. It provides the ability to not have some rose tinted view.
 
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OspreyO said:
I couldn't justify a new EV when I bought mine so I compromised on range and bought used so I'd lose less when the market fell. I didn't anticipate those new budget EVs, and I didn't anticipate there would so much backward steps by some govts.
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I've never bought a new car so wasn't willing to buy a new EV.
Mine was 9 months old with the average mileage and I got it for £18,000 and the new ones were around £27,000 at that time.
Even one that was 6 months old with the newer reg was £22,500 so I think I got a good deal.
They also threw my first 3 services in and AA cover which cost about £620.
Forgot to mention the reason it was so cheap was because there was a little dent in the front spoiler which they changed anyway, quite surprised they didn't change it first then put a £1000 on the price.
 
OspreyO said:
I just didn't think anyone would be daft enough drag this down to dinosaurs. I stand corrected.

I'm not getting into a discussion with someone who freely admits not researching their opinions and makes out their comments are a joke when called on them. Trying to inform someone who doesn't want to be informed is pointless.

It's just not interesting to me.
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Trying to ''inform' someone using your self measured ability to Google is some what of a joke.

Its just not credible to the forum. This Osprey has Dunning Kruger syndrome.
 
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Chinese EV's are rapidly overtaking European and American manufacturs.

America will dilly-dally at the expense of their industry but will move to EV eventually.

The Chinese EV makes biggest market is their own so won't bend over just because of an American 4-year bump other than exploit it.

EV will catch on eventually in America when the preppers realise they can't make their own Hydrocarbons at home but can easily throw up a turbine or panels for cheap.

As for battery longevity, outside of the Zoe's and Leafs, my Ioniq at 97k miles is still getting the original range it had when it was new.

Deffo wouldn't buy any Stellantis based cars though.
 
OspreyO said:
Waiting for used fuel to become a plant then back to oil is a tad more inconvenient than finding a charger.

What the councils do with cardboard boxes has nothing to with batteries.

The web has loads of information about recycling EV batteries. If you can't find anything on the web, that's on you. It's a flat earther mentality if someone can't see it, it doesn't exist.
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A quick google says Currently 5% of batteries are recycled. Some say this is a myth but then don’t provide any data.

And you somehow missed the link of carbon circularity and confused it with charging time. Ironically liquid fuel is the best way to store energy. Batteries are no where near. 90kWh of diesel weighs 7.4kg and can take any shape.
 
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CaneyJ said:
Chinese EV's are rapidly overtaking European and American manufacturs.

America will dilly-dally at the expense of their industry but will move to EV eventually.

The Chinese EV makes biggest market is their own so won't bend over just because of an American 4-year bump other than exploit it.

EV will catch on eventually in America when the preppers realise they can't make their own Hydrocarbons at home but can easily throw up a turbine or panels for cheap.

As for battery longevity, outside of the Zoe's and Leafs, my Ioniq at 97k miles is still getting the original range it had when it was new.

Deffo wouldn't buy any Stellantis based cars though.
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In your opinion or are you from the future ?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I've never bought a new car so wasn't willing to buy a new EV.
Mine was 9 months old with the average mileage and I got it for £18,000 and the new ones were around £27,000 at that time.
Even one that was 6 months old with the newer reg was £22,500 so I think I got a good deal.
They also threw my first 3 services in and AA cover which cost about £620.
Forgot to mention the reason it was so cheap was because there was a little dent in the front spoiler which they changed anyway, quite surprised they didn't change it first then put a £1000 on the price.
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How much is it worth now ? Good depreciation for a used car doesn’t suddenly stop. I imagine depreciation is still more than any fuel savings.

However I get you like the drive of an EV. I would too if comparing to some 3 cylinder diesel and such like.
 
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EV batteries are a bit different from the buckets of old AA you see in supermarkets.

People consider an EV battery dead once it's reached about 70% of it's original capacity but even then they usually aren't recycled but repurposed into static storage use.

The older 2011-2 leaf cells even at just 40% are still being used for backup UPS and house storage options and so there isn't yet a strong need to actually shred these original batteries down just yet.

As for market progression it's simple numbers. The combined Chinese and European market will out-prioritise the US.

The developing world is a mix. Brazil will resist due to it's ability to produce ethanol domestically as are the Japanese who are still clinging to hydrogen.

I would see a need for India to go to EV sooner rather than later due to the amount of city pollution that triggered China's change but power generation and distribution will be their issue.

Americans are often conservative in their mindest so it's often stubborness in their part but they will come around eventually.
 
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