EV general discussion

[b0rn2sk8]

So the conversation over the last few days has been interesting. Here is a video about a new VAG MEB clone that looks quite interesting in an attempt to move things on.

Lets discuss - I like it, it appeals to my inner chav much like the Born and my new found sense of grownupness with its big boot.

Why would you buy an ID.4 over this?

 

[dannyjo22]

Would your 'monkey brain' consider that there are many people buying used EVs so not experiencing the 'horrendous residuals that ALL cars have, not just EVs, or because they actually want to prevent poisoning the air that our children breathe? My wife went for a used Kona EV and I went for a used Q4 after years of running brand new cars. The benefit of EVs is that they don't have lalk the oily bits that can cause such problems on ICE used cars and they need far less sevcicing than ICE vehicles as well.
Perhaps the most disappointing issue in the discussion of EV purchase sis the constant belief that it is only saving money that is important, not the fact that they will prevent children dying of atmospheric pollution in our towns and cities.

Yes of course there's that issue, but how much of your lovely EV isn't made with oil/plastics? Surely as an overall picture your not really doing anything to save the planet?

Fairly soon, it's going to be ICE residuals that are bad. More and more places will ban them due to air pollution, people will realise that EVs are better and cheaper to run, and fuel costs will rise as demand falls and governments no longer need to pander to them. Sure, some enthusiast cars will remain in demand but your tedious family crossover will be hard to shift.

EV residuals are bad mostly because EVs have got a lot better and cheaper over recent years, it is not a fixed property of the technology.

Yes but not in my lifetime. If anything they willl become more desirable for all those people who cannot access a charging point at home. I mean I live in a street built in 2007 of about 70 houses and way less than half can have a power point fitted.

Banning wood burners would probably have more impact in many places. Modern ICE are often cleaner than the air going in

Interestingly I only just recently even knew how bad wood burners were for your health watching a toxicologist on Diary Of a Ceo.

 

[Mr Jack]

Yes of course there's that issue, but how much of your lovely EV isn't made with oil/plastics? Surely as an overall picture your not really doing anything to save the planet?

They're way better than ICE and get better every time the grid gets upgraded. But, yeah, the sustainable solution for transport is public, bikes, and walking.

Yes but not in my lifetime. If anything they willl become more desirable for all those people who cannot access a charging point at home. I mean I live in a street built in 2007 of about 70 houses and way less than half can have a power point fitted.

No, it's going to start switching over really very soon. There are challenges but they're going to get dealt with.

 

[OspreyO]

Will be subjective but also a power delivery thing rather than EV Vs ICE - one of the reasons I like an automatic diesel with a lot of torque and minimal power lag as it really does make traffic so much less stress compared to a gutless and/or laggy manual car.

Our previous auto dsg diesel was slower off the line than our manual petrol. It's not subjective it depends on the car. Ours was very sluggish.

In terms of principle an electric motor gives instant peak torque with no gear changes. Theres no ICE that works like that. That's not subjective that's simply how it works .

Having said that you can get a blisteringly fast diesel (Le Mans) or a slow EV depending how it's been configured.

But I agree with you being able to slot into traffic is much easier with a responsive car. That applies to both EVs and ICE.

 

[OspreyO]

I think while popularity of EVs is increasing. I think the political and economic turmoil will push back progress for decades. ICE will be with us far longer than people think.

I think there will always be a place for ICE for a very long time.

 

[Rroff]

Our previous auto dsg diesel was slower off the line than our manual petrol. It's not subjective it depends on the car. Ours was very sluggish.

In terms of principle an electric motor gives instant peak torque with no gear changes. Theres no ICE that works like that. That's not subjective that's simply how it works .

Having said that you can get a blisteringly fast diesel (Le Mans) or a slow EV depending how it's been configured.

But I agree with you being able to slot into traffic is much easier with a responsive car. That applies to both EVs and ICE.

I mean subjective in what suits people and their driving style - some people actually like a little bit of lag or a specific curve of power response, etc. etc.

Some of the V6 diesels I have or have had have decent amounts of torque with a wide torque band and responsive off the line, though they do intermittently get turbo lag or similar where an EV would be more consistent but it usually happens infrequently enough it isn't a problem, the gear changes on the better automatic transmissions these days are so quick and smooth you basically don't notice them.

EDIT: I've never been a fan of VW DSG though - feels far too much like the car wants to do what it wants to do rather than working with the driver like some other automatic transmissions feel, or at least for my driving style I feel it is the case, one of the reasons I moved away from VW - I was looking at the Touareg but the 3L V6 can be quite sluggish off the line - people have said if you knock it into manual range it will pick up and go much better, and resume to automatic itself, but I've not got to try that.

 

[OspreyO]

Fairly soon, it's going to be ICE residuals that are bad. More and more places will ban them due to air pollution, people will realise that EVs are better and cheaper to run, and fuel costs will rise as demand falls and governments no longer need to pander to them. Sure, some enthusiast cars will remain in demand but your tedious family crossover will be hard to shift.

EV residuals are bad mostly because EVs have got a lot better and cheaper over recent years, it is not a fixed property of the technology.

I think the residuals are bad primarily because of price war between Chinese EVs and Tesla. The Chinese EV have the state behind them, and Tesla has the boss chasing share price at any cost. Regardless of any collateral damage to their user cars sales. Neither cares about used cars. That's what kick started the price drops. Everyone wise was squeezed under that ceiling.

I guess the why doesn't matter though.

 

[Rroff]

Would your 'monkey brain' consider that there are many people buying used EVs so not experiencing the 'horrendous residuals that ALL cars have, not just EVs, or because they actually want to prevent poisoning the air that our children breathe? My wife went for a used Kona EV and I went for a used Q4 after years of running brand new cars. The benefit of EVs is that they don't have lalk the oily bits that can cause such problems on ICE used cars and they need far less sevcicing than ICE vehicles as well.
Perhaps the most disappointing issue in the discussion of EV purchase sis the constant belief that it is only saving money that is important, not the fact that they will prevent children dying of atmospheric pollution in our towns and cities.

PM2.5 is the bad one, which is also a factor with exhaust fumes but for some reason there is a lot of effort to try and marginalise it with pointing out all the toxic gases emitted by exhaust but a lot of the health issues children grew up with living near roads is due to the full spectrum of fine particulates with brake and tyre particles a far bigger component than some, possibly agenda bias, studies allow for - the government's studies tend to support my position on it as well.

It was interesting at the peak of the lockdowns, at least around here, both how quickly and how noticeable the change to air quality was and sadly how quickly it reverted once things resumed to normal again.

To make a meaningful difference requires changing the system though and that needs to be lead by things like leading with the charging network with a joined up and innovative effort at scale, not all this bits and pieces approach and hoping someone else does the heavy lifting/picks up the bills.

 

[lordrobs]

Banning wood burners would probably have more impact in many places. Modern ICE are often cleaner than the air going in with regards to Particulates.

Absolutely this. There is someone in a whacking great house near us who seems to choose to heat the place by burning any old **** unseasoned wood they can find. When the wind is in the wrong direction it's hangs in the air in our back garden and you can feel it's doing you no good what so ever.

It's ok though, he drives a Q4 etron.

 

[Rroff]

There is someone in a whacking great house near us who seems to choose to heat the place by burning any old **** unseasoned wood they can find. When the wind is in the wrong direction it's hangs in the air in our back garden and you can feel it's doing you no good what so ever.

Would say probably my dad :s but he doesn't live anywhere near Norwich. He just bungs anything and everything into the log burner (though does also maintain a supply of seasoned wood, with a drying log store thing, that is used most). Though the chimney is pretty high up so in most weather conditions it isn't hanging around.

 

[dannyjo22]

I think the residuals are bad primarily because of price war between Chinese EVs and Tesla. The Chinese EV have the state behind them, and Tesla has the boss chasing share price at any cost. Regardless of any collateral damage to their user cars sales. Neither cares about used cars. That's what kick started the price drops. Everyone wise was squeezed under that ceiling.

I guess the why doesn't matter though.

I think it's a lot to do with the pace at which it's improving. My collegue got a new EV6 when it came out and returned it this month once his pcp deal was done. It was way under his final payment so he gave it back. He then offered them a lower price if they fixed some of the body work minor dings and fitted 4 new tyres. He then drove the car back home. He knew they would struggle to sell it on and he did the same with his wifes leaf.

 

[the_worrier]

As someone who has never had an EV would a used Nissan Leaf be a good car for my wife? Issues?

 

[Penfold101]

As someone who has never had an EV would a used Nissan Leaf be a good car for my wife? Issues?

Depends what she needs it for. If she’s a field engineer driving 400 miles a day, probably not…

 

[b0rn2sk8]

As someone who has never had an EV would a used Nissan Leaf be a good car for my wife? Issues?

Its fine as a town runabout but not great if needed to do long distances regularly.

They make good second cars IMO and they are pretty cheap for what you get, also consider cars like the e-Corsa which can be had for a similar price.

 

[Journey]

Guess this car will have had 3 or 4 battery replacements.

 

[Rroff]

As someone who has never had an EV would a used Nissan Leaf be a good car for my wife? Issues?

Depends which generation of Leaf as well.

 

[Rroff]

but you have a trip meter where you can rationalize/understand the discrepancy in m/kwh you are getting on both days
( Mokka had 2/3 trips/profiles - didn't seem to want to show me avg m/kwh over last 10/20 miles though, like I get on ice mpg, for ready-reckoning )

Also some cars have the eco drive score (or whatever they call it brand dependent), but it isn't always the most useful information - Nissan especially can have some odd ordering on the trips and vaguely listed other metrics which don't always make sense i.e. https://www.nissan.co.uk/owners/car...om/leaf/0ze1/e0/2023/eco-drive-report-1.shtml

 

[Tinders]

In terms of air quality Euro 6 did make a difference. I live in a main road and you can really tell the difference between old and newer diesels at school run times. Even in crappy Dudley you see a lot more EV’s and the difference to the air will be a fair amount, don’t think it’s measured around here like it is in the bigger cities.

 

[Tinders]

So the conversation over the last few days has been interesting. Here is a video about a new VAG MEB clone that looks quite interesting in an attempt to move things on.

Lets discuss - I like it, it appeals to my inner chav much like the Born and my new found sense of grownupness with its big boot.

Why would you buy an ID.4 over this?

Even the explorer and Capri are nicer than the dull ID4/5. The interiors aren’t even that good. I’d have pretty much all the clones over the ID4/5. I’m pleased with the ID7 though. GTX estate looks very smart.

 

[J1nxy]

So the conversation over the last few days has been interesting. Here is a video about a new VAG MEB clone that looks quite interesting in an attempt to move things on.

Lets discuss - I like it, it appeals to my inner chav much like the Born and my new found sense of grownupness with its big boot.

Why would you buy an ID.4 over this?

I drove it in V2 guise and quite liked it. Drove well and nicely spec’d. Decent size in the back and boot basically a very nice car. Would have one over the ID4/5.