EV general discussion

[lordrobs]

'Charge anxiety' is the new range anxiety. With EV range and rapid charging being pretty decent these days the biggest issue people have is will the charger you want be working and free when you need it?

Isn't that worse though? I mean, it's easy to plan your 300 mile trip around a car that has a 200 mile range but you can't plan for the unknown. Well, unless every trip has three backup plans and a flexible schedule.

The first mutterings of car changes were mentioned at work and I'm struggling to know what to push for. The company keeps their cars for ages so whatever I get I'm likely to be stuck with for at least 5 years.

Today was a fairly regular sort of day when I'm on the road - 299 miles covered. 30 minute coffee and email stop in a McDonald's (no charging), 30 minutes with a customer (no charging), 20 minutes lunch and emails in Gregg's (no charging) and then on to the hotel... Which has 4 charge points, none of which are commissioned yet.

Maybe I'll just have to change the way I plan my day, maybe it wouldn't even be an issue. Ideally I'd try one for a month before committing but that isn't an option! Maybe PHEV is the answer next time round... Or see if I can delay for a year... Things were much simpler when the choice was petrol or diesel

 

[Minstadave]

'Charge anxiety' is the new range anxiety. With EV range and rapid charging being pretty decent these days the biggest issue people have is will the charger you want be working and free when you need it?

Went to Scotland in the Q8 Etron and charged twice on the way up. Both charging stops were almost full and it wasn't a particularly peak time so does add a little anxiety. Gridserve was max 60kw chargers only and in the services off the A1 which was pretty busy. Second charge was an Ionity at a Starbucks site and felt like the way forwards - 12 350kw chargers, nice place to sit for a few minutes.

I rarely did trips in my iPace that needed charging other than destination charging but it was slow to charge and meant stops were longer than ideal. The Etron will do 150kW from 20-80% and this is pretty much perfect for me.

 

[Haggisman]

'Charge anxiety' is the new range anxiety. With EV range and rapid charging being pretty decent these days the biggest issue people have is will the charger you want be working and free when you need it?

I think this has always been the case though, as @lordrobs says, it's much harder to plan for the unknown (charger availablity) than the known (car range). Range "anxiety" is more like range "inconvenience"; yes only being able to do 80 miles on a charge is a pain, but if you KNOW there's a free & working charger at 75 miles then you can plan for that.

Let's put it this way, my car has ~250 miles range, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a 250 mile journey with the only charge point at 240 miles, but I'd happily drive home from 240 miles away.

This weekend should be interesting, driving up to the lakes, ~200 miles on the sat nav, so should be able to do it in one (although will be the first long trip in colder weather), and there are a couple of 50kw chargers a couple of miles away (plus I've shortlisted a couple en-route), but it's half-term, so might be pretty busy!

 

[sandys]

when i got my ipace i was advised that in winter it is far better to use the heated seats and if you have it heated steering wheel to keep yourself warm and only warm the cabin to as minimal a temp as possible. i havent had a winter with my car yet but it is what i plan to do..... unless my lad is in the car and then i wont have much choice

My manual in the Volvo suggests that but the cabin heats quicker than the seats, its instant heat out of the HV heater whereas the seats and steering have a slow ramp up before getting too hot. HV cabin heater kills the battery, loose 5 miles in no time at all.

If you leave the car plugged in, can the car precondition the battery on mains [if economically it makes sense to]? I believe the e2008 if plugged in will use the mains to power the blowers etc.

YUp do that on mine it will warm the cabin to a nice 22 as well as warm the seats so no cold leather, its the best way, costs a few units of electric, then you still have decent range when you set off and don't use so much in EV mode, when you've only got 14.9kw to use, every little bit helps.

On the range side and running down to zero, I have zero'd both the petrol and electric on mine, can't stop playing chicken zero lasts for a couple of miles on mine.

 

[FerretBoy]

This is what makes the £39k Tesla such a good offering. With no charge anxiety, the shorter range isn't a big deal.

This is a great example https://youtu.be/zi5V2XXbrpA?si=3kjoNblYFWNa55Tr

 

[spile]

It’s why the PHEV works for me. Most of my journeys are local so a 30ish mile range is fine. On long journeys I’m just hybrid and don’t bother charging.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Charger anxiety? Buy a tesla.

The standard range model 3 is very good by all accounts. 200+ miles in any weather (closer to 240 in summer) and 170kw charging. Long journeys are not a problem, even with the short range car.

The new one should be even better sans stalks


That said, they’ve just opened up most of not all their chargers in Scotland. Over 30 of their sites are open to all now.

 

[Kill_Phil]

Charger anxiety? Buy a tesla.

The standard range model 3 is very good by all accounts. 200+ miles in any weather (closer to 240 in summer) and 170kw charging. Long journeys are not a problem, even with the short range car.

The new one should be even better sans stalks


That said, they’ve just opened up most of not all their chargers in Scotland. Over 30 of their sites are open to all now.

Just a shame about the extortionate insurance costs...

 

[Uther]

Charger anxiety? Buy a tesla.

The standard range model 3 is very good by all accounts. 200+ miles in any weather (closer to 240 in summer) and 170kw charging. Long journeys are not a problem, even with the short range car.

The new one should be even better sans stalks


That said, they’ve just opened up most of not all their chargers in Scotland. Over 30 of their sites are open to all now.

I do wonder how annoyed Tesla drivers will be in future to turn up at a superhub to find a load of other cars filling the slots.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Musky tears at those sites I’m sure.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Just a shame about the extortionate insurance costs...

Tell me about it. We need a car with a tow bar so our Model 3 will be gone shortly and replaced with a Model Y.

At the same time we’ve switched from ownership to salary sacrifice so it’s less of an issue in the short term. The Model Y was cheaper than an EV6 and polestar 2 on the monthly’s and the TCO want much more than going used #taxbreaksfortherich.

The depreciation is the biggest hard hitter at the moment and seems to be a bit worse on the other cars which is off because it seems the be the thing that tesla owners constantly moan about and blame them for cutting prices without looking at the bigger picture.

Musky tears at those sites I’m sure.

And there’s the other thing that Tesla owners seem to moan about a lot. They are rolling out chargers faster than ever and the V4’s solve a lot of the problems people had with opening up.

The reality is a closed network is untenable these days. The writing was on the wall years ago when it became clear the government was going to need to get involved to resolve the DNO issues.

I expect pricing is the main reason non-Tesla owners choose super chargers over others. There is absolutely no reason to use another network if tesla is near by when it’s 10-30p/kWh cheaper than their nearest rivals.

Prices spiked when electricity spiked, electricity halved in cost and prices have continued to go up everywhere but Tesla. I’m paying as little as 35p/kWh on Tesla’s network as an owner. Some of these sites charging 85p+ are taking the proverbial.

I was at the NEC last week and they wanted 60p for 7kw AC, madness. As above, I paid 35p for a rapid charge at rugby services when I stopped to pee.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I do wonder how annoyed Tesla drivers will be in future to turn up at a superhub to find a load of other cars filling the slots.

lol i actually get it is well to be honest. As a car the Model 3 doesnt really excite me much, and for that price, i either want a car which at least interests me a little bit or i need an objective advantage for owning that car.

so if i was buying a model 3 it would have been primarily for the amazing charging infrastructure and knowing i can charge where other cars may struggle. However IF i bought a tesla and then that advantage was lost then i would feel agrieved and i think justifiably so (because if i am losing the charging infrastructure advantages there are other cars i would rather own).

i must admit the face lift model 3 changes things again however. indicator stalks aside (what were they thinking???) whilst the new car is only mildly tweaked, it just scratches an itch looks wise for me that previously only the model S managed (which we cant get in the uk any more )

add to the annoyance even more, unless it is the new V4 charger, some none tesla EVs need to take up 2 spaces to charge due to the tiny charge cable.

i public charge so rarely i have not tried charging at a tesla point yet, however am sure i will at some point.

 

[pc-guy]

I don’t get it. Why people put up with Tesla’s blatant high balling of their range.

I got a Skoda Enyaq and able to consistently hit the stated range on motorways. And normally in the city I often get more than stated (warm conditions of course).

Like if the car states 350mile range I expect it to be close enough rather than 200 odd…

No doubt the super charger network is superb. But as my car able to hit over 300miles I don’t bother with charging on motorways and rely on destination chargers.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I don’t find range anxiety to be a thing - it’s more charge time anxiety, knowing that unless I’m letting my wallet get gang-banged for rapid public charging then I’m stuck on a three pin plug. So far I’ve made it all work and I’ve ordered a home charger but it’s definitely not something that was ever an issue in an ICE car…

With an ICE car, you've got not choice than being gang banged for using public charging.

 

[pc-guy]

I don’t find range anxiety to be a thing - it’s more charge time anxiety, knowing that unless I’m letting my wallet get gang-banged for rapid public charging then I’m stuck on a three pin plug. So far I’ve made it all work and I’ve ordered a home charger but it’s definitely not something that was ever an issue in an ICE car…

With ICE car you are just being gang banged by the petrol stations and have no choice in it.

Petrol/diesel prices shoots up as soon as there is a hint of crude oil price rise - then never ever comes down.

In 2008 crude hit ATH of $120/barrel which has rarely been reached in the last decade and half. Yet our litre price has nearly doubled when compared with 2008 fuel retail price.

 

[chanjy]

With ICE car you are just being gang banged by the petrol stations and have no choice in it.

Petrol/diesel prices shoots up as soon as there is a hint of crude oil price rise - then never ever comes down.

In 2008 crude hit ATH of $120/barrel which has rarely been reached in the last decade and half. Yet our litre price has nearly doubled when compared with 2008 fuel retail price.

You do realise in 2008 $120 was £60 right

That's £100 now

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I don’t get it. Why people put up with Tesla’s blatant high balling of their range.

I got a Skoda Enyaq and able to consistently hit the stated range on motorways. And normally in the city I often get more than stated (warm conditions of course).

Like if the car states 350mile range I expect it to be close enough rather than 200 odd…

No doubt the super charger network is superb. But as my car able to hit over 300miles I don’t bother with charging on motorways and rely on destination chargers.

They don’t highball the range…?

The WLTP test is the WLTP test and it’s the same test every manufacturer uses and cars are rated against. If you drive the car per the WLTP test cycle, you’ll get the WLTP range. No one drives the WLTP test cycle in the real world.

The Enyak’s WLTP range is over 300 miles for the 77kwh version, I seriously doubt you get 300 miles range when driven normally on a motorway given speeds are way higher than used on the WLTP test cycle.

Sorry to cast doubt on your assertion but I just can’t see that it holds true in reality.

 

[pc-guy]

You do realise in 2008 $120 was £60 right

That's £100 now

£ vs $ was 1.5 and that was peak due to subprime crisis. But before that was really 1.4 max.

Currently it is 1.25 so you are looking at £80/barrel in 2008 vs £72/barrel. So let’s conservatively say the prices were parity. Our retail price gone up 90% in 15 years with inflation around 2% average across those years don’t add up to the rise.

 

[jpaul]

With ICE car you are just being gang banged by the petrol stations and have no choice in it.

disparity between home off-peak charging, for some, and public charging doesn't exist in the ICE world - but indirect tax on home charging(like nz road use charge) may address that

Think closed Tesla superchargers had did run the risk of a monopolies investigation - if, national grid resources / prime planning permission were being allocated to them, working in tandem with car sales.

Residual anxiety ? buy a tesla.
for private buyer, per earlier discussion 2nd hand bev's are now more in reach, but potential owners still want confidence their investment won't dissolve, even if running costs are lower,
(general)bev insurance cost, as said, now impacting residuals too.

 

[413x]

perhaps but has the risk changed 2 - 4 fold in the last 12 months? I doubt it!.

I do know a load of anti ev folks are loving it however........... "see i told you EVs were dangerous, and now the price to insure them proves it!"

Its probably a bit of profit. A bit of inflation.

how much extra does it cost to process a claim now? Spare parts, new car, man hour cost.

How many more expensive new/lease cars are on the road now? It must be much more likely to have 2*50k cars both be written off than it was even a few years ago.