EV general discussion

[bigmike20vt]

Planes and ships are what matter really.

i posted a link last week (in this thread i think) and actually ships are not as bad as i thought - despite their fuel being horrendous.

the conclusion was............. even IF we can only clean up shipping by 50% (short range boats battery, long range container ships using sails and still having a dirty engine), so long as all land travel had been cleaned up then the person on the podcast said they would die happy.

planes they said was a tough nut to crack but they suggested that if all cars went electric, then the biofuel which is currently already used in fueling ICE cars would then cover the lions share of the world demand for jet fuel (without needing to increase biofuel more than it is already produced).

the bottom line was, get the easy stuff (cars, lorries, and trains) cleaned up 1st and be suspicious of media which tries to intimate that it isnt worth doing until we know how to clean up container ships and long haul flight. low hanging fruit 1st!.

 

[sandys]

My next upcoming concern is whether to even bother to teach my son to drive a manual car. He's got zero interest in ever driving an ICE.

I'm teaching my daughter to drive a manual as I'd hate for her not to know what driving interesting cars was all about and the fun she car have, it's fair to say though the social engineering going on at school is hard to fight against.

 

[bigmike20vt]

My next upcoming concern is whether to even bother to teach my son to drive a manual car. He's got zero interest in ever driving an ICE.

its a good point....... I am slightly dissapointed. my lad is almost 8. when he was born i had hoped he would never even need to learn to drive as there would be autonomous cars by the time he was 17.

sadly that seems to have stalled somewhat so i suspect i will have to put my hand in my pocket to teach and insure him as its only 10 years away.................. but a manual? i doubt it will be needed (as i will want him driving a car with as many safety features as possible not some old banger).

its funny really .... back when i was that age most of my friends, despite being inexperienced drivers more likely to have a crash, drove some of the most dangerous tin can cars you can think of.

(austin metro / meistro , really old vauxhaul novas and all sorts of cars) I want my lad in something more secure.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Sentry mode off.

I’ve definitely seen others report it happening at times as well so you are not alone but it’s not the norm.

Mine definitely doesn’t do it, I’ve left it in an airport car for 2 weeks and it lost one mile of range.

I’ve seen people suggest that pending software update downloads can keep the car awake, other times it’s a 3rd party app or stuff like Octopus smart charging has in the past also. I think you mentioned the car you had had neither but for what ever reason it had a bad case of insomnia.

@bigmike20vt sentry mode uses 8-10% a day so you’d notice that one pretty quickly.

@Bug One how olds your child? If they are 15/16 then I’d say a manual is a good idea, if they are still 6/7 then most sub 10 year old cars will probably be automatic at that point given most will be at least hybrid or ‘better’.

 

[jpaul]

Teaching someone to drive a manual is showing them the role of engine braking on a cars handling/grip, which,with an automatic,
as you follow cars into bends, who brake in the final few seconds, seems a lost skill;
not having driven an ev, but whether, their regen matches those expectations of controlled grip.

 

[Priapus]

I'm teaching my daughter to drive a manual as I'd hate for her not to know what driving interesting cars was all about and the fun she car have, it's fair to say though the social engineering going on at school is hard to fight against.

My son is 17 months old. By the time he is ready to start learning to drive, I think finding an ICE car to drive will be difficult; unless you're here in South Africa. It's super rare to see an EV on the road - and even more difficult to find a charger. We're literally in the infancy of EV's and that probably won't change for a decade at least. Even then, most people wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

[Haggisman]

lol it would be such a shame if a scally trying to steal someones cable happened to get a bit of a shock!.

Yes. How terrible. *struggling to keep a straight face*

as for whether it is worth it or not......... i have no idea but it IS a thing. but when has the profit to a scally vs the cost to the victim ever been an issue for them anyway?

I was thinking more in terms of risk (and effort) vs reward. The odd cable probably isn't worth it to have to take to a dodgy scrappy for the sake of a couple of £, but I guess as EVs become more widespread, if you're just going drive to drive (or lamp post to lamp post) with a set of bolt cutters and a mate in a van driving down the road beside you, then you could make a nice few hundred on a road of 20-30 houses.

Not sure. But it's more the theory. But it is possible. Would need to look at the sales of EV vs ICE over time.

I certainly expect to see fewer petrol stations in my lifetime for sure. But maybe not game over time.


I think it won't be long before "you're mad" will be the reaction to buying a new ICE.


For second hand (like me) it will take a while.

If the ban on new ICE does come in to force in 2035 (which remains to be seen), then by 2060, every ICE on the road will be at least 25 years old - how many 25 year old cars are there still on the road currently? There will still be petrol stations around, but barring a major policy u-turn (which to be fair is absolutely expected from our bunch of cowboys) I think it will be a very niche market by that point.

My next upcoming concern is whether to even bother to teach my son to drive a manual car. He's got zero interest in ever driving an ICE.

Have been having this exact conversation with my other half about her lessons. She hates driving manual, and it's getting to the point there are EVs cheap enough to consider as an "old banger"* for a second car, so considering just getting her an auto licence.


* relatively speaking - they are still far from being comparable to your typical £500 shed, but a £5-6k Leaf or ZE20 which will happily still do 40-50 miles in winter is perfectly adequate as a car to commute/nip to the shops in, and has the bonus of being CAZ exempt

 

[413x]

Yes. How terrible. *struggling to keep a straight face*



I was thinking more in terms of risk (and effort) vs reward. The odd cable probably isn't worth it to have to take to a dodgy scrappy for the sake of a couple of £, but I guess as EVs become more widespread, if you're just going drive to drive (or lamp post to lamp post) with a set of bolt cutters and a mate in a van driving down the road beside you, then you could make a nice few hundred on a road of 20-30 houses.



If the ban on new ICE does come in to force in 2035 (which remains to be seen), then by 2060, every ICE on the road will be at least 25 years old - how many 25 year old cars are there still on the road currently? There will still be petrol stations around, but barring a major policy u-turn (which to be fair is absolutely expected from our bunch of cowboys) I think it will be a very niche market by that point.



Have been having this exact conversation with my other half about her lessons. She hates driving manual, and it's getting to the point there are EVs cheap enough to consider as an "old banger"* for a second car, so considering just getting her an auto licence.


* relatively speaking - they still aren't in the realms of your £500 shed, but a £5-6k Leaf or ZE20 which will happily still do 40-50 miles in winter is perfectly adequate as a car to commute/nip to the shops in, and has the bonus of being CAZ exempt

Good point.
Our end of life car is only 2008. So you're right. If the ban does come in, and more tax is added to fuel, as more used usable EVs come onto the second hand market ICE will drop away.

Its only the current gen of EVs I'd consider buying so it's a good 5-10 years away for me .but I very much want an EV

 

[Feek]

Coming back into this thread for the first time in ages with a question.

How much does weight in a car affect range?

Say an electric car has 270 miles range.

Load it up with four adults, plus completely fill the boot with a weeks worth of luggage. Proper full, have to struggle to close the boot. Assume the adults are all tall (over 6ft) and built like brick outhouses.

What will that realistically do to the range?

 

[Priapus]

Coming back into this thread for the first time in ages with a question.

How much does weight in a car affect range?

Say an electric car has 270 miles range.

Load it up with four adults, plus completely fill the boot with a weeks worth of luggage. Proper full, have to struggle to close the boot. Assume the adults are all tall (over 6ft) and built like brick outhouses.

What will that realistically do to the range?

As with an ICE car, I think it would reduce the range for sure, if that's what you're asking. By how much? too many variables to figure that out I think.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

What will that realistically do to the range?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

* relatively speaking - they are still far from being comparable to your typical £500 shed, but a £5-6k Leaf or ZE20 which will happily still do 40-50 miles in winter is perfectly adequate as a car to commute/nip to the shops in, and has the bonus of being CAZ exempt

I did a valuation of my Leaf yesterday. £2200 - £2500.

They've literally dropped like stones. Definitely bargain shed prices / first car territory now.

 

[Haggisman]

Coming back into this thread for the first time in ages with a question.

How much does weight in a car affect range?

Say an electric car has 270 miles range.

Load it up with four adults, plus completely fill the boot with a weeks worth of luggage. Proper full, have to struggle to close the boot. Assume the adults are all tall (over 6ft) and built like brick outhouses.

What will that realistically do to the range?

Not as much as an ICE actually. Yes it will take more energy to get going, but the extra weight will give the car more momentum, so assuming you are using regen effectively, you will also regain more energy when braking (which in an ICE would just result in extra heat going into the brakes). Obviously regen isn't 100% efficient, and there will be additional tyre wear etc. also sapping energy, but it's better than you'd first think

I did a valuation of my Leaf yesterday. £2200 - £2500.

They've literally dropped like stones. Definitely bargain shed prices / first car territory now.

Definitely - I was sceptical of people saying my ZE40 would still be worth £12k+ after the 5 years HP was up (my estimate was closer to £8k). I got it in January 2019, so it would still have ~18 months to go, and they are already down to ~£9k for an identical car with lower mileage.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Coming back into this thread for the first time in ages with a question.

How much does weight in a car affect range?

Say an electric car has 270 miles range.

Load it up with four adults, plus completely fill the boot with a weeks worth of luggage. Proper full, have to struggle to close the boot. Assume the adults are all tall (over 6ft) and built like brick outhouses.

What will that realistically do to the range?

Limited in my experience.

It’s the stop start where weight makes the most difference. If you are just cruising the impact is negligible. Particularly compared to heating or wet weather.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Drag is the biggest killer. Weight, not so much.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I did a valuation of my Leaf yesterday. £2200 - £2500.

They've literally dropped like stones. Definitely bargain shed prices / first car territory now.

I think you can easily get a ZE40 for £5-6k now.

EV man on the tubes got one for £4,400 a few months ago, battery owned too. I think prices have gone back up again a bit since.

 

[Haggisman]

I think you can easily get a ZE40 for £5-6k now.

EV man on the tubes got one for £4,400 a few months ago, battery owned too. I think prices have gone back up again a bit since.

£8.5k is the cheapest battery owned ZE40 I can see on AT right now - almost useable as the only car in the household (we did for 18 months until covid took our mileage down to basically nothing). Only problem is the lack of fast charging (22kw is a **** - that's if you're lucky enough to even actually find a fast AC charger)

 

[Jonnycoupe]

not having driven an ev, but whether, their regen matches those expectations of controlled grip.

Oh wow.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Coming back into this thread for the first time in ages with a question.

How much does weight in a car affect range?

Say an electric car has 270 miles range.

Load it up with four adults, plus completely fill the boot with a weeks worth of luggage. Proper full, have to struggle to close the boot. Assume the adults are all tall (over 6ft) and built like brick outhouses.

What will that realistically do to the range?

Next to nothing, take the battery weight out of a car and its efficiency (for the same size car) would only go up about 10%.

Literally did that on a 2300mile trip to Italy (fully loaded car)

 

[Uther]

Teaching someone to drive a manual is showing them the role of engine braking on a cars handling/grip, which,with an automatic,
as you follow cars into bends, who brake in the final few seconds, seems a lost skill;
not having driven an ev, but whether, their regen matches those expectations of controlled grip.

You have over a 1000 posts in a thread titled 'when are you going electric' and you've never even driven an EV?