EV general discussion

Bargains IMO.

When looking at Zoe’s, CCS wasn’t standard on the base model so make sure the one you buy has it.

Not sure if there is anything fundamental like that to look out for on the Mini/Citygo/E-Up (all the same car).
 
SDK^ said:
The low end is £50k to £60k on both (from 2020)
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Auto trader right now has 1 ICE 20 plate Panamera at 50k. The rest all start at 62k. There are 20 Taycans at 55k or under. I fail to see how the low end is the same for both.

At 61k there is 1 ICE Panamera in that budget for sale on Autotrader whereas there are close to 70 Taycans. Also most of the Taycans are also a lot higher spec.
 
It’s not a reflection of EV at this end on my view, a lot of the people buying and replacing Taycans can do so with the 100% write down on year one through their company accounts. Often the companies they are director is of. Very much a fringe case here I don’t see the merit of using for an example.

The fact you are just shows you understand the market less than you think. Dunning-Kruger
 
SDK^ said:
Most EV’s are leased, where the end price of the car doesn’t impact the user. I just handed back my Polestar 2 and if it was worth just £1.50 it would make zero difference to me. [I’ve already made all my monthly payments based on calculations 3 years ago]
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Until you come to lease another one. The lease companies aren't charities and their business model is pretty straight forward. You pay the anticipated depreciation plus whatever mark-up they decide to charge. If they get stung on the depreciation one year, the amortised cost will go up the next. The problem is that by that point people won't have have a choice because they've got themselves on the three year merry go round.
 
To be honest with the ZEV mandate and the requirement to sell a decent proportion of EVs every year to 2030 I don't see the cheap leases ending anytime soon.

Company cars always used to depreciate massively too (the private market for these cars is smaller than the fleet market, so have to be cheap to sell), it's nothing new except a lot of company cars are now EVs so you see high depreciation on expensive EVs instead of diesel 3 and 5 series

edit: the penalty for not meeting the mandate is £15k per car so there will be a good incentive to keep the deals cheap!
 
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chanjy said:
To be honest with the ZEV mandate and the requirement to sell a decent proportion of EVs every year to 2030 I don't see the cheap leases ending anytime soon.

Company cars always used to depreciate massively too (the private market for these cars is smaller than the fleet market, so have to be cheap to sell), it's nothing new except a lot of company cars are now EVs so you see high depreciation on expensive EVs instead of diesel 3 and 5 series

edit: the penalty for not meeting the mandate is £15k per car so there will be a good incentive to keep the deals cheap!
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The only spanner in the works being if they can convince a larger proportion of private buyers to go EV. While batteries / raw materials to make them remain a potential bottleneck in the supply chain the manufacturers are going to be looking very carefully at whether they need to be giving massive discounts to the lease companies. The alternative being keeping their margins and offering their own finance at an attractive rate.
 
To answer the question of the thread... Possibly sooner than I originally planned. Got an i4 edrive 40 loaner for the day while my 5 has it's EGR recall work done. Have to say I'm really impressed with the i4 and the electric drivetrain, very smooth but also very punchy.
 
chanjy said:
To be honest with the ZEV mandate and the requirement to sell a decent proportion of EVs every year to 2030 I don't see the cheap leases ending anytime soon.

Company cars always used to depreciate massively too (the private market for these cars is smaller than the fleet market, so have to be cheap to sell), it's nothing new except a lot of company cars are now EVs so you see high depreciation on expensive EVs instead of diesel 3 and 5 series

edit: the penalty for not meeting the mandate is £15k per car so there will be a good incentive to keep the deals cheap!
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A friend is a bit of trader and i went to an auction with him last week. Pretty much everything coming off lease is either a Tesla or BMW 330E or Merc a250 :p. In another few years it will all be EV, i dont know any comp car driver that hasnt gone full EV. Every director with the companies i deal with have gone posh EV!
 
adam cool dude said:
Even if you had 9k you would pretty mad to put 9K into a brand new EV.

That's why the vast majority of EV sales are tax jobs. No one with a sane mind would purchase privately brand new unless you got money to burn.

Early Taycans less than 3 years old are already less than 50k. That is is S class and 7 series levels of depreciation if not more.
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Pretty much every brand new taycan is up to 20% off atm. Last time I looked there were over 100 brand new ones available on porsches website with massive discounts. So I can see why they have lost more than 50% in three years. Bubble has burst on them when you had a 2 year waiting list.
 
Tinders said:
A friend is a bit of trader and i went to an auction with him last week. Pretty much everything coming off lease is either a Tesla or BMW 330E or Merc a250 :p. In another few years it will all be EV, i dont know any comp car driver that hasnt gone full EV. Every director with the companies i deal with have gone posh EV!
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So what has happened to the 93% of cars that were registered 3 years ago that weren't EV?!
 
Had the Genesis GV70 since Friday and here's my initial impressions of the car vs the launch model Polestar 2 DM Pilot/Plus with OTA performance upgrade.

Hope @SDK^ won't mind but I just used one of his previous posts as a template to remind me of some Polestar 2 pros/cons :D

Plus points for the GV70
- I love that it unlocks when you walk up to it with the key.
- More space in most places - particularly in the front and in the boot.
- The Interior is a different level. Leather seats, leather covered dashboard, ambient lighting, easy access driver and passenger seats etc.
- When you indicate left your speedometer shows your left blind spot camera, and when you indicate right your power level meter shows your left blind spot camera.
- 360 Cameras are higher resolution, and turning circle is slightly better. It has LED projectors putting 'guidelines' on the road behind you, so I find this easier to park at night.
- Heated and cooled seats. Plus the seat heats you bum and your back.
- It has a heat pump as standard - launch model Polestar 2's didn’t have this. Winter range should be better.
- Always wanted a car with a Heads up Display and now I have one - So useful. I don't even look at the speedometer as without the nav on it shows my current speed, speed limit for the road and warns me of speed cameras. With the nav on I get my turn by turn directions.
- The Genesis app is much better. It sends me push notifications if I leave the a door open, or if I leave the car unlocked. It also lets me actually set the temperature in the car and I can also adjust if I want the mirror heaters on, steering wheel heater on etc (Polestar defaults to 22°C regardless of the outside temperature, even in summer)
- Great view out the back window, and a rear wiper.
- Two very good and easy to access cupholders and a more useful centre storage console.
- The UI is just better. For example in the Polestar with Google automotive - if you have the map on the screen you can't see what music is playing. On Android auto when you have Google map on the screen, every time the next track plays (or you skip) from Bluetooth music streaming, a little section appears on the screen telling you what song is playing. I miss having Google maps as standard (but easily remedied with Android auto)
- You can turn off the passenger detection for the rear! Sometimes when carrying heavy items on the back seat in the Polestar 2 it would constantly warn you that a seatbelt wasn't plugged in because it thought somebody was sitting there.
- Wireless charger is in a better place and easier to slot phone in to.
- Ride comfort when cruising - That adaptive suspension is so good in 'comfort mode'.
- You can store the load cover under the boot..


Plus points for the Polestar 2 launch edition.
- The polestar 2 gets the power down better and can deal with a twisty road better. It's lower down and weighs 200kg less - I accelerated on a straight road from 30 to 65 mph with the boost button engaged (483 BHP for 10 seconds) and it felt like the GV70 was spinning the wheels slightly. It was a slightly damp road though.
- The panoramic glass roof on the Polestar 2 - My GV70 was a stock vehicle so didn't come with the lovely panoramic sunroof (although it does have beige headliner though so it's not too dark inside.)
- I don't have rear heated seats on this (though they are an option), but nobody ever really sat in the back of my car anyway.
- Kick open boot on Polestar 2 was useful and flawless before. GV70 does have a feature where the boot will open if you just stand behind it - But I need to test that extensively before putting my dogs in the boot in case it is a bit too sensitive!
- The front trunk in the Polestar 2 is a useful size. The Frunk in the GV70 is pathetically small. I used to keep my AC charging cable in the frunk of the Polestar, but I doubt I could fit the GV70 one in there (haven't actually tried it yet)
- The GV70 has a start button, I don't know if I preferred sitting in the car to start it, but it's certainly something I got used to very quickly.
- Polestar 2 doesn't have as many annoying 'safety' bleeps and bongs.
- Polestar 2 had cornering lights, which GV70 doesn't have. I didn't really ever notice them until they were gone, and they are quite useful on roads with lots of tight bends.
- Bigger door bins

Minor annoyances:
-HUD will only show directions from the GV70 navigation, not google maps.
-Android Auto is currently wired, though Wireless Android Auto is coming soon in an update, now that licensing has been sorted between Hyundai/Kia/Genesis and Google.
- Warning screen on the infotainment display when you start the car. It goes away after about 20 seconds, but we should be able to turn that off.
- GV70 defaults to level 1 regenerative breaking every time you start. It's barely noticeable but I prefer coasting.
- GV70 defaults to Matrix lights disabled every time you start. Polestar 2 remembered how you left them.
- GV70 defaults to lane keep assist on every time you start. This might be a legal requirement now, but I thought the Polestar 2 allowed you to save this setting to off?
- In 'sport mode' the adaptive suspension is actually more uncomfortable than the Polestar 2.

Other things:
USA cars get a feature that sets the seat position to optimal based on your height, leg inseam and weight - It's not on the UK cars for some reason.
Massaging seats seem like a gimmick, but we will see on a longer journey.
 
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lordrobs said:
So what has happened to the 93% of cars that were registered 3 years ago that weren't EV?!
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At a guess company car drivers are hanging on to them a bit longer, if i could keep my 330e for another year id happily do it, but ive got to give it up :(
 
Greebo said:
Pretty much every brand new taycan is up to 20% off atm. Last time I looked there were over 100 brand new ones available on porsches website with massive discounts. So I can see why they have lost more than 50% in three years. Bubble has burst on them when you had a 2 year waiting list.
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It is difficult maths to buy any EV second hand when salary sacrifice is no lucrative.
 
Tinders said:
At a guess company car drivers are hanging on to them a bit longer, if i could keep my 330e for another year id happily do it, but ive got to give it up :(
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I'm expecting I will keep my Pug for a bit longer if they allow me, as delivery timelines still seem a bit all over the place.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
It’s not a reflection of EV at this end on my view, a lot of the people buying and replacing Taycans can do so with the 100% write down on year one through their company accounts. Often the companies they are director is of. Very much a fringe case here I don’t see the merit of using for an example.

The fact you are just shows you understand the market less than you think. Dunning-Kruger
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Mini Electric starting 11k. 20 plate. John Cooper Works 20 plate 18K. Both 33k ish RRP.
 
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