Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[John40]

150% increase? All that says to me is some people are being paid as little as £4 per hour for doing just as much work as someone else purely due to their age. Would you work for £4 an hour?

Yes I would at 16-17 as £4 is better than nothing which it would be if Corbyn's idiotic scheme ever sees the light of day.
Don't forget he also wants 16 yr olds to vote so you can see the idea behind it.

 

[Caged]

If he hadn't bribed students during the recent election May would have had her majority easily, the tricks the leftist establishment and media are pulling to try to prevent Brexit is quite eye opening. Trump and May seems to be the last stand against the globalist agenda.

Nice Breitbart talking points you have there

 

[Raikiri]

Yes I would at 16-17

Would you now, at whatever age you are?

as £4 is better than nothing which it would be if Corbyn's idiotic scheme ever sees the light of day.

I'd argue otherwise, considering most kids 16-18 will be at college I think their time would be much better spent studying than earning £4 an hour.

Don't forget he also wants 16 yr olds to vote so you can see the idea behind it.

You can sign up for the armed forces at 16, if you're able to make a decision like that then why shouldn't they be able to vote?

 

[vincent1989]

I'm all for employers having to pay more. When the four biggest UK companies are effectively propped up by wage subsidies at the taxpayers expense all the while posting record profits and paying executives in the order of millions in pay and perks something is very wrong.

 

[Tunney]

If he hadn't bribed students during the recent election May would have had her majority easily, the tricks the leftist establishment and media are pulling to try to prevent Brexit is quite eye opening. Trump and May seems to be the last stand against the globalist agenda.

Maybe the Conservatives will start listening to young people now instead of treating them with contempt.

 

[The_Abyss]

I'm all for employers having to pay more. When the four biggest UK companies are effectively propped up by wage subsidies at the taxpayers expense all the while posting record profits and paying executives in the order of millions in pay and perks something is very wrong.

Out of interest, do you know who the top four private companies in the UK are, and how are you measuring them?

 

[Mr Jack]

I'm all for employers having to pay more. When the four biggest UK companies are effectively propped up by wage subsidies at the taxpayers expense all the while posting record profits and paying executives in the order of millions in pay and perks something is very wrong.

There is no evidence, at all, of tax credits acting as subsidies to firms. It's a myth.

 

[Amp34]

If he hadn't bribed students during the recent election May would have had her majority easily, the tricks the leftist establishment and media are pulling to try to prevent Brexit is quite eye opening. Trump and May seems to be the last stand against the globalist agenda.

The only "bribing" would be those 18 and 19 year olds that didn't go straight from school to uni AND were thinking about going in the near future. That's going to be in the tens of thousands realistically.

Compare that to the triple lock pensions the conservatives were "bribing older people with prior to this election....

Yes I would at 16-17 as £4 is better than nothing which it would be if Corbyn's idiotic scheme ever sees the light of day.
Don't forget he also wants 16 yr olds to vote so you can see the idea behind it.

What's wrong with 16 year olds voting?

You do have a point with regarding working or not however. There does seem to be a correlation between increasing minimum wage and increased youth in/under employment. I guess because why hire a young person with no experience if you can hire an older person with experience. Once you remove the pay differential between the two there's less reason to hire the young person, making it more difficult for them to get a job and gain experience.

It's a tough one though, because why should someone be paid less just because they're younger.

 

[vincent1989]

Out of interest, do you know who the top four private companies in the UK are, and how are you measuring them?

It's on something I read a year or two ago but if I remember rightly the four largest UK companies were

Tesco
Sainsburys
Asda
And next? (it was a clothing chain)

The a vastly disproportionate amount of whose employees are in receipt of in work benefits.

http://www.citizensuk.org/taxpayer

 

[vincent1989]

There is no evidence, at all, of tax credits acting as subsidies to firms. It's a myth.

Rubbish. Companies know they can get away with paying minimal amounts because people are able to top up their income from elsewhere. The whole idea of a free market is a complete fallacy propped up by tax payers as proved with the bailout of the banks. The free market lives and dies on handouts.

 

[Raikiri]

It's on something I read a year or two ago but if I remember rightly the four largest UK companies were

Tesco
Sainsburys
Asda
And next? (it was a clothing chain)

The a vastly disproportionate amount of whose employees are in receipt of in work benefits.

However they aren't really 'private' companies in the strictest sense as they're publicly traded, which is probably what The_Abyss was getting at. IIRC Wilko is the largest private company in terms of sales.

However I agree that low paid workers are subsidised by tax payers on average, working tax credits and child tax credits amount to about £28,000,000,000 annually and around £11,000,000,000 of that is working tax credits.

To me this seems to be the antithesis of capitalism, if their model isn't profitable without government involvement then surely they shouldn't succeed?

 

[vincent1989]

However they aren't really 'private' companies in the strictest sense as they're publicly traded, which is probably what The_Abyss was getting at. IIRC Wilko is the largest private company in terms of sales.

Fair point, strictly speaking you are correct but I meant private in the sense that they aren't publicly owned ie national rail.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

However they aren't really 'private' companies in the strictest sense as they're publicly traded, which is probably what The_Abyss was getting at. IIRC Wilko is the largest private company in terms of sales.

However I agree that low paid workers are subsidised by tax payers on average, working tax credits and child tax credits amount to about £28,000,000,000 annually and around £11,000,000,000 of that is working tax credits.

To me this seems to be the antithesis of capitalism, if their model isn't profitable without government involvement then surely they shouldn't succeed?

It's beyond a joke really.

They need to re-evaluate their profit margins and suck it up. Pay a proper wage or go out of business.

Tax credits was always a terrible idea but getting shot of it completely would be a disaster.

It's also disgraceful that young people are paid less. I had left home, had a mortgage at 19. Why should I have been paid less considering I had more responsibilities than most people in their 30s these days?

What about young people who don't actually have a home to go to? The ones who are forced to make their way in the world on their own. Why should they be paid less?

Why not pay people of pension age less? What's the difference?

 

[stewski]

There is no evidence, at all, of tax credits acting as subsidies to firms. It's a myth.

But let's not defend tax credits as an idea, frankly deliberate obfuscation of tax is offensive whatever your political leaning surely?

 

[The_Abyss]

It's on something I read a year or two ago but if I remember rightly the four largest UK companies were

Tesco
Sainsburys
Asda
And next? (it was a clothing chain)

The a vastly disproportionate amount of whose employees are in receipt of in work benefits.

http://www.citizensuk.org/taxpayer

Nope: Royal Mail, G4S, Tesco and Compass Group

Given the claim you're making, it is probably more accurate to list the UK's largest employers in order to assess the impact. They're all public sector...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_United_Kingdom_employers

 

[The_Abyss]

However they aren't really 'private' companies in the strictest sense as they're publicly traded, which is probably what The_Abyss was getting at.

Thanks - that was what I meant. Although the largest private employers are pretty sizeable too. I think John Lewis is the largest employer in the UK in that sector.

 

[Raikiri]

It's beyond a joke really.

They need to re-evaluate their profit margins and suck it up. Pay a proper wage or go out of business.

Tax credits was always a terrible idea but getting shot of it completely would be a disaster.

It's also disgraceful that young people are paid less. I had left home, had a mortgage at 19. Why should I have been paid less considering I had more responsibilities than most people in their 30s these days?

What about young people who don't actually have a home to go to? The ones who are forced to make their way in the world on their own. Why should they be paid less?

Why not pay people of pension age less? What's the difference?

I agree completely, the wage should be based on the job being done, not the person doing it. If they came out with a women's living wage that was £6 an hour instead of £7.50 there would be outrage and rightfully so.

If a company can't afford to pay a reasonable wage for a position then either that company is failing or the position is untenable.

Thanks - that was what I meant. Although the largest private employers are pretty sizeable too. I think John Lewis is the largest employer in the UK in that sector.

Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to speak for you just pointing out the difference

 

[PlacidCasual]

Millions of people need large companies to fund their pensions. If big companies suck it up my company pension is even further underfunded. Not everyone has the luxury of a tax payer funded pension most of us need capitalism to work.

 

[Sheff]

Millions of people need large companies to fund their pensions. If big companies suck it up my company pension is even further underfunded. Not everyone has the luxury of a tax payer funded pension most of us need capitalism to work.

But the argument as mentioned is that it is no longer truly capitalism. Doesn't this suggest that the system isn't working and hasn't done for decades? In many ways the state is having to subsidise/cover for the private sector, be it in work benefits, an underfunded state pension or a tiered minimum wage.

 

[Trifid]

I guess because why hire a young person with no experience if you can hire an older person with experience. Once you remove the pay differential between the two there's less reason to hire the young person, making it more difficult for them to get a job and gain experience.

It's a tough one though, because why should someone be paid less just because they're younger.

A few years ago we had a new manager start and instead of hiring experienced people into entry level positions like the previous manager, they hired fresh from school kids. Previously we had people who failed to progress their career and had poor work ethic. Now we have young enthusiastic people who jump at the opportunities provided to them and because of this they then mold excellently into specialist positions which are extremely difficult to find experienced candidates for. The turn over rate for entry positions is now much higher, but they are much more capable people who remain employed with us but in higher positions.

The moral of this story? Employers should take a chance on the young again and provide on the job training. They will be a asset to your business.