May's snap election was to secure a mandate for her Hard Brexit. The people rejected it. It's the will of the people.
Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July
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May's snap election was to secure a mandate for her Hard Brexit. The people rejected it. It's the will of the people.
The Brexit side see things as a much longer term and hope that in 10 years time things would have stabilised and the UK will be just getting on with it. I don't think there is an argument that in the short term things might be a bit rubbish
Soldato
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this is the problem, economic success post brexit is based on hope, rather than the cold hard reality that life within the eu was not bad for our economy.
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I don't see that happening in 10 years time at all. Is there any research that has been done by any higher up brexit MPs that shows how the UK will be better off and how the UK will get to that place of prosperity?
Or is it all based on hope?
Just depends how you define 'a bit rubbish' as the words our chancellor is using if we don't get a good deal is 'catastrophic'
Bit more complex than that IMO - she was trying to slip in a bunch of pretty horrible policies under the radar and people didn't fall for it. It was quite amusing to see the penny dropping and potential Tory voters saying, "Wait, what?!"
Complete shambles.
Does anyone think any predictions of whats going to be happening in 10 years time will even be remotely close. Parliaments cant even predict a few years ahead within budgets so its in the realms of no body knows.
I'm not defending leaving or staying at this point but guessing whats going to happen 10 years out is a crystal ball job
I'm not defending leaving or staying at this point but guessing whats going to happen 10 years out is a crystal ball job
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doesn't seem to stop folk on here predicting corbyn will turn us into a 3rd world nation in the space of 10 years....
Since a Soft Brexit is Brexit as is Hard Brexit, Turgid Brexit, Flaccid Brexit, Red White and Blue Brexit.....then yes, you did vote for whatever version of Brexit the Govt delivers.
So no, the remainers won't have got their way at all if we still have a Soft Brexit, the only way we win is if Brexit is cancelled entirely.
So don't go trying to change history by saying a Soft Brexit is a win for Remainers and go off sulking about it, you Brexiteers won, you just had no idea what you were winning. - that's the whole point, with no options on the table at the time of the Referendum, you had no idea what you were actually voting for and you all had your own individual thoughts to what it meant.
Hence it's a mess when trying to debate with brexiteers because you each change the frame of reference of the argument depending on your own point of view.
Except no Brexit supporter has ever been able to give their expectation of exactly when we are meant to reap the rewards that leaving the EU supposedly delivers. No one has supplied any evidence as to why or when they think we will be better off...as you said it's a "hope". I can see the caveat that "we always expected short term problems" being trotted out for many years to come, because no one ever defined how long it would be before benefits were realised. Hypocritically though, whenever people who advocated remaining warned of the possible serious economic ramifications, it was dismissed because "you don't have a crystal ball!" or "Project Fear!!!". I see...so predicting long term economic success if we leave, based on little more than your own hopeful opinion is fine, but predictions which you don't like are dismissed out of hand? Righto.
In 10 years time, if we are worse off, Brexiteers will say "This is what we expected, think of the long term!". Whereas in 10 years time, we if are "better off", they will claim it is a direct result of Brexit, even though it would probably be impossible to attribute any success to it by then - and it would be impossible to actually prove conclusively if we might have been better off still by remaining in the EU. Essentially, leave voters will always be able to validate their position to themselves.
Conversely, give me the metric by which we are mutually able to measure Brexit a success, and the timescales associated with that metric, and if we achieve it I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong about voting to remain. Until then, woolly statements like "we are thinking of the long term" as a response to the economic problems we are encountering as a result of the vote to leave, hold no water.
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There's a Brexit thread for discussion about Brexit. Please use that.
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Extremely valid point. As usual... Nothing has been defined by the leave group. No plan at all. Short term pain for long term gain.
Ask them what long term is and it will be a different time... Depending on the current economy.
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Oops ok that was my last post.
You have fallen into the trap of thinking that democracy is some sort of ongoing process. One particular day in 2016 we reached democratic perfection when an incredible 51.9% of voters said Leave the EU (even though what that really meant was never defined). Therefore there is no further need for democracy as apparently this plan to wreck our economy can never be challenged or reviewed, regardless of how appalling the reality turns out to be.
No one knew what Brexit meant. We still don't.
And if you're - laughably - claiming that your version of Brexit is the same as the next voters, then we're already at a non-starter, but given that its you posting this, we know that already, don't we.
E: sorry FT, had quoted it before reading through.
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it's kinda worrying that this is the case but we up and had the vote anyway without leaving enough time for the arguments to mature and be countered.
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I'm still severely disgusted how May stood on that stage a few weeks ago and told that nurse there was no magic money tree for her pay rise... And weeks laters pays the DUP 1bn to keep her OWN job.
Im currently a labour supporter (although I'd consider myself a floating voter) but I really am trying to get a middle ground view .......and I still wonder how anyone could vote for Tory. It's disgusting.
Im currently a labour supporter (although I'd consider myself a floating voter) but I really am trying to get a middle ground view .......and I still wonder how anyone could vote for Tory. It's disgusting.
Could you imagine the reaction if the SNP took a £1Bn bribe to keep Theresa May in number 10?
This is going to come back to haunt her, massively, and it can't happen too soon.
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It won't. Now if it was corbyn giving either the SNP / DUP / SF £1bn.... It would be a media apocolypse. The media let the Tories get away with it.
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Seems like a bargin to me compared with Corbyns £10Bn/yr bribe to win student votes
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