F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread

Nodirection said:
Agreed.

Raw pace is scary on the BGP's though. On long stints (20laps+) they are still pilling as fast/faster times than the rest, which is a better indication than the (admittedly good)glory runs.
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F1 cars are engineered to be well underweight then ballasted to meet the regs (meaning the teams can move the ballast around to change the cars handling).

Even without taking fuel level into account all they'd have to do is not fit that ballast whilst testing and they'd be able to do long runs and 'race simulations' whilst still turning out an impressive looking pace.
 
1. Ferrari
1. BMW
3. Mclaren
4. Toyota
5. Renault
6. Red Bull
7. Brawn GP
8. Toro Rosso
9. Williams
10. Force India


yes, two 1st...i see kaiowas has same order ;)
 
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1. Brawn GP ;)
2. BMW
3. Ferrari
4. Renault
5. McLaren
6. Williams
7. Red Bull
8. Toyota
9. Toro Rosso
10. Force India
 
kaiowas said:
F1 cars are engineered to be well underweight then ballasted to meet the regs (meaning the teams can move the ballast around to change the cars handling).

Even without taking fuel level into account all they'd have to do is not fit that ballast whilst testing and they'd be able to do long runs and 'race simulations' whilst still turning out an impressive looking pace.
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Although this is true, and it almost makes sense for the team to do this to make sure they secure lots of sponsership, testing an underweight car is a true waste of money. The reason being, without the correct weight you probably would not be able to judge tyre wear rates correctly, the thing most teams are struggling with the most.

If for a second we do consider that this is what BGP are doing, then they still have a very well balanced and reliable car to be putting in the laps consistently and not being overdriven off the track, like a certain other team ;)

I cant wait for you to be proved wrong come Melbourne :D
 
I just don't see what BrawnGP would have to gain by running the car underweight. No sponsors are going to be fooled by that sort of thing any more, and with the rule changes they'll want some proper, usable data.
 
Ill never understand OcUK....

Mclaren are slightly off the pase and suddenly it MUST mean they are slow and screwed, but Brawn are on the pase and it MUST mean there cheating or fiddling it in some way? Howcome were so quick to suggest poor performance, but so fast to dismiss good performance. We really are a nation that will our teams to fail. Having always been a 'British' fan of F1 (support british teams and british drivers) Im well chuffed that another british guy in a british team looks to be doing well, So im just going to ignore the OcUK dismissal of positive prospect and look forward to some good racing.

On the other hand, this ruined my plans for a punt. Button was 66/1 to win the championship 2 days ago, well worth an each way bet... Now hes 10/1.... :( (thats ahead of Seb 'the new Schumacher of F1, guarneteed to win the championship' Vettel...)
 
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Skeeter said:
Ill never understand OcUK....

Mclaren are slightly off the pase and suddenly it MUST mean they are slow and screwed, but Brawn are on the pase and it MUST mean there cheating or fiddling it in some way? Howcome were so quick to suggest poor performance, but so fast to dismiss good performance. We really are a nation that will our teams to fail. Having always been a 'British' fan of F1 (support british teams and british drivers) Im well chuffed that another british guy in a british team looks to be doing well, So im just going to ignore the OcUK dismissal of positive prospect and look forward to some good racing.

On the other hand, this ruined my plans for a punt. Button was 66/1 to win the championship 2 days ago, well worth an each way bet... Now hes 10/1.... :( (thats ahead of Seb 'the new Schumacher of F1, guarneteed to win the championship' Vettel...)
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Pace - obviously failed by the Wiltshire education system ;)
 
Lets face it the Merc engines are performing well. McLaren should just ask Brawn GP for some aero tips... :P
 
The Brawn GP times certainly are interesting, and it will also be interesting to see if McLaren are able to catch Ferrari as the season progresses with limited testing. Normally I don't pay too much attention to the testing times but a 2 second gap seems massive, I doubt it'll be that bad during actual racing but I'm sceptical that there is enough time to recover as race day isn't far off at all.
 
I think it's clear that McLaren have a problem; however they're also a very well funded team with a lot of talent. There's time between now and the first race for them to make significant improvement and even if they're not front runners in the first race you've got to think they'll make up ground as the season progresses.
 
Mr Jack said:
I think it's clear that McLaren have a problem; however they're also a very well funded team with a lot of talent. There's time between now and the first race for them to make significant improvement and even if they're not front runners in the first race you've got to think they'll make up ground as the season progresses.
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No doubt they will make up some ground but with the ban on in season testing, it will probably take longer than it would have in the past few seasons to correct anything.
 
Smit said:
No doubt they will make up some ground but with the ban on in season testing, it will probably take longer than it would have in the past few seasons to correct anything.
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Nail, head.

Last year, a team like McLaren wouldnt have minded about being a bit of the pace, as they would chuck loads of money at it and developed throughout the season. This year though, they simply cannot do that. Expect to see McLaren out a lot on Fridays if they do indeed have problems.

Im not so keen on the testing ban for this reason. It basically means if your behind at the begining of the year, your stuck there. Unless we see more of the FIA giving people special permission to develop to allow them to catch up (like the Renault engine). That, and the fact that F1 testing was a great way for fans to see F1 cars up close at a major circuit without having to spend loads on race tickets.
 
Skeeter said:
Im not so keen on the testing ban for this reason. It basically means if your behind at the begining of the year, your stuck there. .
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No different to the teams that have had to suffer an underpowered engine for YEARS due to the developement stagnation. Any wonder Honda decided they just couldn't catch up if the engine was 30bhp down.
 
Well, its nice to finally see McLaren openly admit that there is a major problem and that they aren't off the pace "because Heikki was lifting on the straights". (Anybody who knows anything about F1 knows that no driver would do that if they were so far off the pace, as it makes them look incompetent, slow and only serves to boost morale of your rivals).

Personally I dont think that BrawnGP were running illegally; I believe that on Circuit de Catalunya, what they showed this week was their genuine pace. Of course, this wont translate to other tracks perfectly, but to be almost a second faster than everybody else is a nice confidence boost to go into your first race of the season. Due to lack of testing however, their achillies heel is likely to be reliability.

As was stated earlier in this thread, doing testing sessions with an illegal car is a total waste of time and money. McLaren wasted time playing around with an illegal rear wing and once they fitted the legal wing on, they found themselves with a slow car and only 1 more test session to get it right, before the season begins. For this reason, its almost always best to run with legal parts (if you have access to them), so that you can get genuine test data, to take back to your factory for analysis, based upon which you can evolve your parts to make the car faster. Also, it gives the drivers a better feel for the car, allowing them to learn how it behaves, which in turn gives them practise on how to drive that particular at the fastest speed possible.

The way BrawnGP have started is the exception rather than the rule and the fastest cars are usually those that have the most test miles on them. This year, that accolade falls to 2 teams - BMW and Ferrari.
 
dannyjo22 said:
No different to the teams that have had to suffer an underpowered engine for YEARS due to the developement stagnation. Any wonder Honda decided they just couldn't catch up if the engine was 30bhp down.
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exactly, and its one of the reasons id guess that they threw in the towl. Engine makers, unable to tweak engines.... So why even bother show up?
 
sunama said:
(Anybody who knows anything about F1 knows that no driver would do that if they were so far off the pace, as it makes them look incompetent, slow and only serves to boost morale of your rivals).


As was stated earlier in this thread, doing testing sessions with an illegal car is a total waste of time and money. McLaren wasted time playing around with an illegal rear wing and once they fitted the legal wing on, they found themselves with a slow car and only 1 more test session to get it right, before the season begins. For this reason, its almost always best to run with legal part.
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It isn't unbelievable that a driver would lift off on the straights to hide the true pace of the car, even though I don't think thats the case.

Also you'd have to be quite stupid to think McLaren put the 08 rear wing on the car for no point and that it was a waste of time and money, there is obviously a point for everything a team does in testing.
 
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