F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread

[FrankJH]

The are many possible design permutations if you go down the road that Brawn/Toyota/Williams did which would lead to quite different final solutions. But, they are all based on the same initial premise - and it is that premise that will be protested/needs clarification.

Im all for clarification - what annoys me is that teams are being hampered with imposing bans when its not their fault at all.

Undoubtedly the FIA got it wrong - by not notifying the refused teams when they had their minds changed, but that shouldnt count against Brawn etc

Not only that, but did you actually see the application /refusal - Im just wondering if Renault / RB got refused because of a slight detail included in the initial proposal that the allowed teams got around another way

 

[ShakenNstirred]

the car must be bad if he`s now saying this
"LEWIS HAMILTON last night sensationally admitted he could quit McLaren.
The world champion has always said that he wanted to stay with the team for life.
But on the eve of launching his title defence in Australia, Hamilton revealed he would listen to offers from F1 rivals.
Hamilton, 24, said: “I would listen to an offer from another team if someone asked me.
“It would be a great compliment and it would be silly if I did not.
“But I haven’t had offers from other teams and I’m not talking with anyone.”
Hamilton has been with the Woking-based outfit since he was 13 and is in the second season of a five-year deal that will guarantee him around £70million.
But it is understood he has a performance clause in the contract allowing him to leave if the car is not up to scratch. "

 

[knip]

If you ask me, thats all just drama and its done to just get more publicity on the eve of the new season.
(and thats me saying that as a Lewis fan)

 

[Duke]

Lewis is on BBC1 just now.

 

[Stormrider]

Looks like the protest has been lodged by Ferrari, Renault and RBR. BMWs protest has been rejected since it wasn't lodged in time.
Stewards are to rule on it today.

 

[Django x2]

Interesting debate on the regs.

Nice to see we're back to points though, although I assume it will change for next season ??

Buttons car looks fantastic, I hope he gets a real good stab at it this year.

 

[JRS]

Looks like the protest has been lodged by Ferrari, Renault and RBR. BMWs protest has been rejected since it wasn't lodged in time.

*sigh*

Nice one boys. Just what we need to completely overshadow the first race. Couldn't have asked for a clarification of the rules after the first round could you? No, you had to go and make sure that the result of this race had more of a chance at being decided in the stewards office.

Stewards are to rule on it today.

Excellent. I look forward to their utterly retarded ruling then.

 

[dannyjo22]

Im all for clarification - what annoys me is that teams are being hampered with imposing bans when its not their fault at all.

Undoubtedly the FIA got it wrong - by not notifying the refused teams when they had their minds changed, but that shouldnt count against Brawn etc

Not only that, but did you actually see the application /refusal - Im just wondering if Renault / RB got refused because of a slight detail included in the initial proposal that the allowed teams got around another way

I agree 100% if a system or part has been cleared by the FIA when a team asks for advice then it should be fine for the whole year. It should only be at the end of the year that the FIA can re-rule on a design.

There's obviously a slight difference in the Brawn proposal that allowed it to be cleared. Tough luck on the other teams. If the other teams cannot come up with what they did to make it pass a request tough luck.

 

[thecremeegg]

This is what annoys me about F1, they spend the whole time moaning about each others cars! Surely if 3 teams have come up with this design then it must be within the rules. Ferrari are just annoyed they didnt think of it

 

[pastymuncher]

Yet the cars passed scrutineering!! It's pathetic.

On a side note there are supposed to be 26 cars on the grid next year according to BBC Ceefax. Bernie is saying that he has three new teams signed up. One will be the Americans. What about the other's? Pro-drive maybe? Maybe even a middle east team? Bernie is also pushing his totally crap medals type awards instead of point's. Yet another half baked scheme that does'nt award consistency.

 

[leaskovski]

300 people losing their jobs, rumours of a very dark cloud over their heads if they don't get some big sponsors soon.

Very stable.

300 people were always going to loose their jobs. There are far too many people in that factory. Honda took this pee somewhat with that place. Conference hall, a failed hotel, I mean, it was a bit of a joke going into brackley with the failed building site on your right.

 

[clv101]

Yet the cars passed scrutineering!! It's pathetic.

On a side note there are supposed to be 26 cars on the grid next year according to BBC Ceefax. Bernie is saying that he has three new teams signed up. One will be the Americans. What about the other's? Pro-drive maybe? Maybe even a middle east team? Bernie is also pushing his totally crap medals type awards instead of point's. Yet another half baked scheme that does'nt award consistency.

Why overly award consistency? The current system rewards consistency too much in my opinion. Consistency doesn't make for a good show. I'd prefer more flamboyant, hero or zero stuff - which is what the medal system is more likely to produce.

 

[FrankJH]

I agree 100% if a system or part has been cleared by the FIA when a team asks for advice then it should be fine for the whole year. It should only be at the end of the year that the FIA can re-rule on a design.

There's obviously a slight difference in the Brawn proposal that allowed it to be cleared. Tough luck on the other teams. If the other teams cannot come up with what they did to make it pass a request tough luck.

You said it even better than I did

But it now looks like it will be stewards decison (and we all know how good they are ...NOT)

Complete farce, and as stated above overshadowing the 1st race, and well designed cars who expose a gap in the rules

Why overly award consistency? The current system rewards consistency too much in my opinion. Consistency doesn't make for a good show. I'd prefer more flamboyant, hero or zero stuff - which is what the medal system is more likely to produce.

So driver A loses the title after having 7 wins and 5 2nd places to a guy who "only" has 8 wins - sorry thats complete BS, and not a way to run a season of GP's

Its different in athletics (that Bernie is so intent on comparing to) because they are individual race meetings and while they have "seasons" there is still nothing that is officialy rewarded for multiple golds in one season (apart from Kudos of course) - the GP season, has always been about all the races , and not just a few

 

[rpstewart]

Why overly award consistency? The current system rewards consistency too much in my opinion. Consistency doesn't make for a good show. I'd prefer more flamboyant, hero or zero stuff - which is what the medal system is more likely to produce.

Medals are fine if Grand Prixs returned to being one-off events. If you want a championship then it has to be awarded to the person who had the best overall performance for the year. Bernie keeps talking about people understanding medals because they're used for other sports. Yes they're used for other sports but they're not used for anything where there is a "championship" to be won at the end of a season.

I don't subscribe to the theory that there will be desperate attempts to pass simply to get the win. The driver doesn't own the car, the team does and they're still looking for consistency for the constructors championship. I can see drivers being told to hold station and not risk binning the car.

 

[JRS]

Yes they're used for other sports but they're not used for anything where there is a "championship" to be won at the end of a season.

Not that I want to defend the idea (given how retarded it is), but I'm pretty sure 'championships' like the Olympic and Commonwealth games have medal tables. It could work, if it wasn't just a blanket "most wins takes the title" thing. And I think Bernie's initial idea was a lot closer to the Olympic medal table idea than the botched horrible plan that the FIA cooked up and later backed down on.

 

[rpstewart]

I've never thought of the Olympic medals tables as a championship though. To me it's just a device that the media use to show how well/badly we're doing relative to the Australians & Germans.

Then you have to work out how to order it, the classic most golds is best or the new fangled US version where you rank it by simple medal count regardless of colour so that you stay ahead of the Chinese?

 

[clv101]

So driver A loses the title after having 7 wins and 5 2nd places to a guy who "only" has 8 wins - sorry thats complete BS, and not a way to run a season of GP's.

For sure the 7 wins and 5 seconds might deserve the championship - but I expect the majority (mostly casual) followers of the sport care more about having 18 exciting races rather than having the last third of half the races being a procession of people following each other home, happy with their consistent finish, as has been the case in recent years.

Maybe the issue here (and with most things the FIA say) is that the small minority of Formula 1 enthusiasts aren't liking changes which are (quite rightly) aimed at making the sport more enjoyable for the majority of casual, and new followers. Keeping a few million enthusiasts happy is not as important as attracting another 100 million new, casual followers.

I'd rank delivering 18 exciting races that went down to the line, above the 'rightful', based on consistency, championship winner. There's no certainty that medals will deliver the exciting races, but I expect it's a step in the right direction.

 

[philjohn]

Not that I want to defend the idea (given how retarded it is), but I'm pretty sure 'championships' like the Olympic and Commonwealth games have medal tables. It could work, if it wasn't just a blanket "most wins takes the title" thing. And I think Bernie's initial idea was a lot closer to the Olympic medal table idea than the botched horrible plan that the FIA cooked up and later backed down on.

If bernie really wants to award racing then a larger points difference between 1st and 2nd will do it, along with points going further down the classification board a la Moto GP - that way we'll have some great duels further down the pack for the points.

 

[orderoftheflame]

I'd rank delivering 18 exciting races that went down to the line, above the 'rightful', based on consistency, championship winner. There's no certainty that medals will deliver the exciting races, but I expect it's a step in the right direction.

The last two points based championships, did go right to the line, 2008 went to the last corner even.

With "medals", the championship could be over by halfway easily, and I bet it would rarely ever go to the last race.

 

[clv101]

The last two points based championships, did go right to the line, 2008 went to the last corner even.

With "medals", the championship could be over by halfway easily, and I bet it would rarely ever go to the last race.

No, that's not my point. I'm talking about races, not championships going down to the line.

To the casual follower, the vast majority, who maybe only catch half the races in a season, the individual race is the most important thing about Formula 1. I think we should concentrate on making individual races as exciting as possible - and not worry too much about what that means for the championship.