F1 2009 Season discussion/development thread

Duke · 6 Dec 2008 at 12:47

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7768596.stm

Sounds like the others still wish to continue. I would guess only a few people right at the top make that decision though.

Type_R · 6 Dec 2008 at 15:11

I guess it would be an accurate reflection to change the livery at Honda to 'shattered dreams' for the upcoming tests.

philjohn · 6 Dec 2008 at 17:31

Type_R said:
I guess it would be an accurate reflection to change the livery at Honda to 'shattered dreams' for the upcoming tests.

assuming they will take part in the other tests, surely getting a new engine supplier and the car adapted to it would preclude them from a vast swathe of the group ones?

Alibaba99 · 6 Dec 2008 at 19:21

dannyjo22 said:
Of course hamilton is multi champion material, he's in the best car on the grid. Take him out and put any of 5 or 6 others in the car and they would be multi winners.

Not totally sure about that. Massa, for example, likes a car with understeer. The McLaren has a sharp front end and a mobile rear, completely the opposite to how Massa likes a car to be and I suspect he wouldn't look too good in one. Kimi likes oversteer, so would probably have gone rather better in the 2008 McLaren than he did in the Ferrari. Lewis/Kimi in a McLaren and Felipe/Heiki in a Ferrari would be interesting comparisons.

Over Clocker · 6 Dec 2008 at 19:46

I'm seeing some reports that so far the best option on the table is from David Richards's Prodrive. What do we all thinkof that?

philjohn · 6 Dec 2008 at 19:58

Over Clocker said:
I'm seeing some reports that so far the best option on the table is from David Richards's Prodrive. What do we all thinkof that?

Well, if Honda are accurate in saying the pared down operation could run on as "little" as £40,000,000 it could be a good way for prodrive to get in and still be financially viable (30,000,000 odd from tv money and then sponsorship for the rest)

Mikey · 6 Dec 2008 at 21:26

philjohn said:
Well, if Honda are accurate in saying the pared down operation could run on as "little" as £40,000,000 it could be a good way for prodrive to get in and still be financially viable (30,000,000 odd from tv money and then sponsorship for the rest)

I hope not as this will mean down scaling their GT program and LMS which is far more fun

JRS · 6 Dec 2008 at 21:45

*pokes head in*

Is it safe to come in here, or is sunama going to say something dumb again to wind me up?

*glances up the page*

Oh dear, too late....Ah well, since I'm here anyway I might as well throw in my tuppence.

F1 is dead, folks. It just hasn't stopped twitching yet. The writing has been on the wall for ages now. When F1, the supposed pinnacle of motorsport, has to start engaging in frappin' cost-cutting exercises it's time to stop running F1 and run Grand Prix racing to a different ruleset. They've done it before, after all. The world championship was run to F2 rules in '52 and '53 in an attempt to avoid a Ferrari redwash. It didn't work in that respect (Alberto Ascari pretty much dominated), but it did allow many new teams to join the fray. Maybe TPTB ought to look back at that for inspiration, rather than go down the spec-racing route that they appear to be enamoured with.

Type_R · 6 Dec 2008 at 21:51

philjohn said:
assuming they will take part in the other tests, surely getting a new engine supplier and the car adapted to it would preclude them from a vast swathe of the group ones?

Yes I hadn't thought of that :eek:

Ross Brawn on Autosport says:

Honda have agreed to fund the team until March, but at nowhere near the level they would have done if they were sticking to their plan to return to the front. It means that Honda Racing will skip the next two pre-Christmas tests in Jerez, and also a change of plans in terms of the timetable for launching the new car.

"We were scheduled to have the new car running at the end of January and now, because of a probable engine change, we are scheduling the beginning of March. And while we were going to start with our launch spec aero package and then do a major upgrade before Melbourne, I think we will be going straight to the new package – which for timing and logistical reasons won't be quite as intense as the Melbourne package was (originally) going to be.

Glaucus · 6 Dec 2008 at 21:56

JRS said:
F1 is dead, folks. It just hasn't stopped twitching yet.

I have to agree, if standard engines come in, I will not be watching. i watch f1 as much for the technology as I do driver skill. Standard aero is going to far, standard engines will just push a lot of people like me out the sport.

I will have to somehow get tickets to see a race this year. As I fear it may well be my last as a spectator.

Glaucus · 6 Dec 2008 at 22:12

frakker said:
. Why are so many people assuming that it'll be a disaster?

It has nothign to do with the credit crunch. Teams have always come and gone. It's the move away from technology that many of us don't like.

JRS · 6 Dec 2008 at 22:16

frakker said:
Crikey, quite a few doom-mongers present in here eh? F1 isn't dead and won't die.

Won't it?

Grand Prix racing will probably survive. But that doesn't mean that Formula One will. As I said earlier, they've ran the world championship to Formula Two rules before. There's bog-all stopping them from doing it again, aside from their complete lack of imagination.....

Slam62 · 6 Dec 2008 at 22:17

Bernie and the banks have been bleeding f1 dry for far too long. The FIA is too weak to govern properly.

F1 needs to sort itself out.

PinkFloyd · 6 Dec 2008 at 22:32

Slam62 said:
Bernie and the banks have been bleeding f1 dry for far too long. The FIA is too weak to govern properly.

F1 needs to sort itself out.

I second this.

Duke · 6 Dec 2008 at 23:16

JRS said:
*pokes head in*

Is it safe to come in here

* hugs JRS *

Sparky · 6 Dec 2008 at 23:17

Break away series anyone?

Sparky · 6 Dec 2008 at 23:31

JRS said:
*pokes head in*

Is it safe to come in here, or is sunama going to say something dumb again to wind me up?

*glances up the page*

Oh dear, too late....Ah well, since I'm here anyway I might as well throw in my tuppence.

F1 is dead, folks. It just hasn't stopped twitching yet. The writing has been on the wall for ages now. When F1, the supposed pinnacle of motorsport, has to start engaging in frappin' cost-cutting exercises it's time to stop running F1 and run Grand Prix racing to a different ruleset. They've done it before, after all. The world championship was run to F2 rules in '52 and '53 in an attempt to avoid a Ferrari redwash. It didn't work in that respect (Alberto Ascari pretty much dominated), but it did allow many new teams to join the fray. Maybe TPTB ought to look back at that for inspiration, rather than go down the spec-racing route that they appear to be enamoured with.

Bugger, better start looking for a new job.

JRS · 6 Dec 2008 at 23:36

Duke said:
* hugs JRS *

Never knew you cared, love

CS||nuTs said:
Bugger, better start looking for a new job.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm sure that even if F1 was to die a death, GP racing would continue on. And the way the FIA are going, F1 will die a death - standard engines, standard aero bits, standard floors, standard suspension.....It'll be a glorified spec-racing series, but it will still be a world championship.

The championship doesn't need to be F1. It could be any formula that they want. It just happens that F1 has been the ruleset used for quite some time now.

Over Clocker · 6 Dec 2008 at 23:43

This might be useful for some:

Currently the terms "Formula One race" and "World Championship race" are effectively synonymous; since 1984, every Formula One race has counted towards the World Championship, and every World Championship race has been to Formula One regulations. But the two terms are not interchangeable. Consider that:

the first Formula One race was held in 1947, whereas the World Championship did not start until 1950.

in the 1950s and 1960s there were many Formula One races which did not count for the World Championship (e.g., in 1950, a total of twenty-two Formula One races were held, of which only six counted towards the World Championship). The number of non-championship Formula One events decreased throughout the 1970s and 1980s, to the point where the last non-championship Formula One race was held in 1983.

the World Championship was not always exclusively composed of Formula One events:

The World Championship was originally established as the "World Championship for Drivers", i.e., without the term "Formula One" in the title. It only officially became the Formula One World Championship in 1981.

From 1950 to 1960, the Indianapolis 500 counted towards the World Championship. This race was run to AAA/USAC regulations, rather than to Formula One regulations. Only one of the world championship regulars, Alberto Ascari in 1952, competed at Indianapolis during this period.

From 1952 to 1953, all races counting towards the World Championship (except the Indianapolis 500) were run to Formula Two regulations. Note that Formula One was not "changed to Formula Two" during this period; the Formula One regulations remained the same, and numerous Formula One races were staged during this time.

The distinction is most relevant when considering career summaries and "all time lists". For example, in the List of Formula One drivers, Clemente Biondetti is shown with 1 race against his name. Biondetti actually competed in four Formula One races in 1950, but only one of these counted for the World Championship. Similarly, several Indy 500 winners technically won their first world championship race, though most record books choose to ignore this and instead only record regular participants.

sunama · 7 Dec 2008 at 00:17

CS||nuTs said:
Bugger, better start looking for a new job.

You havent stated your opinion on which way things are going to go?
You are an insider and as such probably have a better idea than most of us.
Speak up man.