F1 2015 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!

this_is_gav said:
I'm not saying there isn't a degree of luck, but of all the drivers who win the title which I would call less than top tier:

Mike Hawthorn
Graham Hill
Denny Hulme
Nelson Piquet (the car Gods were shining down on him 3 times!)
Keke Rosberg
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve
Jenson Button
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Just....wow. Where the hell to begin with that.....

Right. Graham Hill. Not top tier....huh. We are talking about the Graham Hill who won the Monaco Grand Prix five times (a record not beaten until one Ayrton Senna showed up many years later), who won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in '72, who won the Indy 500 in '66 (still the only driver who ever won the Triple Crown of motorsport under either of the two definitions applied to it) and won two F1 World Championships. Right? That's the Graham Hill that we're on about is it? Unless there was some other, rather more mediocre Graham Hill that I missed somewhere along the line?

Don't be so ******* stupid....:p
 
Is this_is_gays argument that those guys are not top tier becuase at some point they were beaten by a team mate?

Best add Schumacher, Prost and Senna to that list then.
 
Skeeter said:
Best add Schumacher, Prost and Senna to that list then.
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In fairness, MSc never lost to a team-mate in his first career.
In his second career he was not the same driver.

In 2006, MSc found a new guy called Alonso, who could take the mantle from him. Alonso had beaten him in 2005/6 and MSc retired at the right time.

When he returned, he hadnt raced for several years and he just wasnt the same driver.

MSc was so far ahead of his team-mates that on a few occassions, he would lap them, on merit.

Prost and Senna were beaten by eachother. I don't think they lost to any other driver, except eachother.

Beating your team-mate is one of the most valid ways of analysing the performance of a driver.
 
JRS said:
Just....wow. Where the hell to begin with that.....

Right. Graham Hill. Not top tier....huh. We are talking about the Graham Hill who won the Monaco Grand Prix five times (a record not beaten until one Ayrton Senna showed up many years later), who won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in '72, who won the Indy 500 in '66 (still the only driver who ever won the Triple Crown of motorsport under either of the two definitions applied to it) and won two F1 World Championships. Right? That's the Graham Hill that we're on about is it? Unless there was some other, rather more mediocre Graham Hill that I missed somewhere along the line?

Don't be so ******* stupid....:p
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You beat me to the punch, I immediately facepalmed as soon as I saw "Graham Hill"... not even close to being out of the top 5 greatest drivers of all-time.
 
JRS said:
Just....wow. Where the hell to begin with that.....

Right. Graham Hill. Not top tier....huh. We are talking about the Graham Hill who won the Monaco Grand Prix five times (a record not beaten until one Ayrton Senna showed up many years later), who won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in '72, who won the Indy 500 in '66 (still the only driver who ever won the Triple Crown of motorsport under either of the two definitions applied to it) and won two F1 World Championships. Right? That's the Graham Hill that we're on about is it? Unless there was some other, rather more mediocre Graham Hill that I missed somewhere along the line?

Don't be so ******* stupid....:p
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It's all opinion, but in mine is that Graham Hill wasn't top draw. Winning at Monaco 5 times doesn't make you one - not in an era where he beat Ginther to the flag twice (oooh) (and his rivals retired), finished first out out of 3 finishers (in a race without Lotus), finished first in the class of 1 Lotus 49 (just after Clark had died) and then won in a race where all of his rivals retired. I'm not saying he wasn't good, but he wasn't among the greats - no way.

He beat some fairly mediocre teammates (OK, teammates which might have been good drivers had they been around long enough - Ginther excepted) and when another top driver came along he was shuffled from BRM and then trounced by Clark at Lotus (they only shared a season together with not a lot of finishes between them, but Clark was still undefeated in the races they both finished and trod all over him in the practice sessions).

Some will disagree with me on Piquet (and fair enough), but Mansell had the beating of him but for a puncture and a broken arse, and Mansell, as much as I loved him, probably wasn't a great himself (but made up for it in determination, which is the only reason I left him off the list (though I'm sure wouldn't have made it on other's).


Skeeter said:
Is this_is_gays
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That's marks you out as a true man among men... :rolleyes:


Varsh said:
You beat me to the punch, I immediately facepalmed as soon as I saw "Graham Hill"... not even close to being out of the top 5 greatest drivers of all-time.
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There aren't 5 drivers greater than Graham Hill? Really? Have you actually seen any of the 60s? I don't think he was even in the top 5 of the decade to be honest. Don't get me wrong, he was very good, but you had Clark, Stewart, Rindt, Brabham and Surtees among others who I rate ahead of him.
 
Quartz said:
Back to present-day drivers, it is rumoured that Alonso may be going to Audi.
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Oh this old chestnut.

It must be true:
PbeIc3nY.jpg


They've been rumoured before, many times, most recently when they 'wanted' 4 cylinder turbocharged Hybrid engines and if the FIA did that they would join, the FIA made a start and then they chickened out and went for the current 1.6L V6 turbos.

If Alonso does take a year out then it could be true but until I see Audi (or some other VAG group entity) on an official FIA F1 Entry list I won't believe it.
 
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Lol. Is that every possible outcome coverered now? No, wait, we need some rumours that Alonso will buy Caterham and/or Marussia and then pretty much every team will have been involved in an Alonso rumour.
 
Sad news for Manor, although they and Caterham havent ever done much worth noting. Its still a shame to loose 4 cars, and the staff their jobs. Perhaps Newman HAAS will step in early?

One thing is for sure, in F1 there will always be people with more money than sense, so im sure someone will buy
 
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