F1 2015 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!

Didn't button have a very good relationship with honda back in the day? I can only assume that its going to be some of the 'old team' that are involved with the re-entry to F1 and as such perhaps there is a chance of him staying in Mclaren as a known entity?
This is very true.... for some reason they love him down there, so I would say he has a better chance of staying than KMag.... thats if Honda has a say or not, which I doubt very much. McLaren are their own company, while yes, there will be some contractual balls, I don't think big ron will be happy to let them get away with that.
 
kmag is a better bet long term for mclaren (although I'm not sure he's good enough), but Honda seem to want a wcc quickly and while button won't be favourite for wdc he will deliver solid points to help in the constructors.

I think if Button stays it shows how much influence Honda has.
 
clearly you're someone who doesn't like their point being disproved because the point is valid :rolleyes:

He was saying the first half of the season there was ZERO competition and Rubens didn't win a race in the first half when no one could touch the Brawn(he was also the no.2 driver by and large... or lets say a long term no.2 driver). When the other cars closed up and were then faster or on par with the Brawn, Rubens won more races than Button. IE when the car qualified upfront and cruised out untouchable they pretty much kept station and finished with Button ahead, with Rubens very very much used to doing that at Ferrari.

When other cars actually put Brawn under pressure, when the two drivers had to fight for positions and when Rubens was required to do as well as possible to stop the competition getting too many points, Rubens wasn't just holding station behind Button, he was driving to try and get max points and he basically did better in the second half of the season than Button.

He was comparing two drivers in the same car, not Button and other drivers, your point is accurate but had absolutely no relevance to what he was saying.
 
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I'm sorry. But anyone decent in the brawn (Honda) car would have won that championship

Button was flattered by a par team mate
Just like with red bull. If you have a weak team mate and far superior car you can't help but win
 
Sorry, don't buy that. Barrichello was decent.

He was a good driver in his prime. 2009 was well past his prime. JB would never of won a championship unless he had the fastest car. JB is a good smooth driver but he is not a special driver. I'm not a JB hater just a realist. I cheer him on as I like to see our british lads do well.
 
He was a good driver in his prime. 2009 was well past his prime. JB would never of won a championship unless he had the fastest car. JB is a good smooth driver but he is not a special driver. I'm not a JB hater just a realist. I cheer him on as I like to see our british lads do well.

This comes around every few months. Generally (as in the vast majority) of World Champions are won in the fastest car. Not really rocket science :) The advantage Merc have had this year compared to Brawn is well over double and been consistent through the year rather than just starting off well and having no development.
 
JB would never of won a championship unless he had the fastest car.

The BGP001 was the fastest car (very) briefly. The Red Bull was certainly quicker over more than half of the season, the McLaren was probably quicker once they'd ironed out the worst of the aero gremlins.

Getting the car to the flag more often than his rivals is what won JB the '09 championship. He'd have (probably) finished every race if Grosjean hadn't forgotten to brake for Les Combes. Meanwhile, no-one else mounted a remotely consistent challenge.
 
Yes but they were aging drivers. If they don't move on how will we ever see the rise of new f1 stars and great inter team battles.

Massa, Button, Alonso, Raikonen and Kobayashi next year should all get the boot and do endurance racing or become a pundit for their countries.
 
I'm sorry. But anyone decent in the brawn (Honda) car would have won that championship

Button was flattered by a par team mate
Just like with red bull. If you have a weak team mate and far superior car you can't help but win

It's nothing new, anyone in the top 10 or 15 could have won the title in this years Mercedes and Hamilton also has a sub par team mate. That hasn't stopped people praising so called great drives.

Take Hamilton away and Rosberg would still have won the title. At least in Jensons season his team mate wasn't even runner up. :D

It's nothing new, anyone of the top drivers would have won the title in Mansells 92 cars, Prosts 93 car, Damons 96 car, JV's 97 car, Hakkinens 98 car, any of the magical ferraris MS had, Kimis ferrari JB's Brawn, Vettels Red Bulls, Hamiltons Merc.

They all had team mates this forum would call sub par. :D
 
Yes but they were aging drivers. If they don't move on how will we ever see the rise of new f1 stars and great inter team battles.

Massa, Button, Alonso, Raikonen and Kobayashi next year should all get the boot and do endurance racing or become a pundit for their countries.

On what terms are they aging? You suggesting they get to the age of 33 and suddenly forced to retire? They're not bloody footballers!

I'd argue they are in their prime. Mansell won the '92 championship at 39. Prost won the '93 championship at 38. Those Williams cars are amongst the fastest ever being loaded up to the gunwales with the ultimate in F1 technology.

Button might appear to be "old" to the casual observer having started in F1 at the age of 20 - at that time the youngest driver ever. Similar applies for Alonso and Raikonnen. Prost, Mansell etc didn't make it into F1 until their mid-late 20s.

That Red Bull are putting kids into F1 drives who should be at school is a disturbing development. If it starts forcing drivers in their prime out, just because they've had their 10+ years then more so.
 
Yes but they were aging drivers. If they don't move on how will we ever see the rise of new f1 stars and great inter team battles.

Massa, Button, Alonso, Raikonen and Kobayashi next year should all get the boot and do endurance racing or become a pundit for their countries.

Oh dear, so you want a load of K Mags ******** the grid up.
 
I don't really think Rubens or webber were that good. In my opinion of course

Barrichello was a fine driver, but he peaked in the 90s.

Barrichello had the beating of Button until the Brawn car came along. Perhaps that says more about Button than Barrichello, but still.

People rave over Senna's drive at Donington in 1993, but Barrichello was at least his equal that day until his fuel pump failed with a couple of laps to go.
 
For example, 20 years ago, Mansell, Prost & Senna raced in a era when piloting cars required a different level of fitness, e.g. brute force. Nowadays, its completely different. The cars are faster & yet less demanding physically, however, are more demanding mentally.

The driver age has dropped dramatically, partly due to younger generations brought up on technology from the outset, F1 teams have simulators.
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I have been thinking on this bit for a while since you posted it. Why do you think the cars are more mentally demanding, I would say less mentally demanding than having to manually select your own gear and a box that won't let you downshift incorrectly? Or nursing a car with your own feet rather than a dial selection. Yes there have been dials galore added to the wheel over the years but still very little of that has been done on their own. The selections are given to them, they are just the monkey turning the dial.

I also think because drivers are needed less and less in the set up of cars and even less for developement that they can put younger and younger drivers in the car. Yes they have simulators but that's only because they can't go testing like they used to. I think the ease of the cars to drive has allowed kids with 12 races to jump into an f1 car.
 
He was saying the first half of the season there was ZERO competition and Rubens didn't win a race in the first half when no one could touch the Brawn(he was also the no.2 driver by and large... or lets say a long term no.2 driver). When the other cars closed up and were then faster or on par with the Brawn, Rubens won more races than Button. IE when the car qualified upfront and cruised out untouchable they pretty much kept station and finished with Button ahead, with Rubens very very much used to doing that at Ferrari.

When other cars actually put Brawn under pressure, when the two drivers had to fight for positions and when Rubens was required to do as well as possible to stop the competition getting too many points, Rubens wasn't just holding station behind Button, he was driving to try and get max points and he basically did better in the second half of the season than Button.

He was comparing two drivers in the same car, not Button and other drivers, your point is accurate but had absolutely no relevance to what he was saying.

and the fact that when the brawn was the strongest car and JB was easily out qualifying Rubens he was also out racing him as well (hence a lot of races where Rubens may have got 2nd but many seconds behind - but I guess that kind of thing goes over your head

Without even going into the fact that by the 2nd half of the season RB wasnt as much competition for the title compared to Jenson, so other drivers were less bothered about letting him past.

Given how low the budget was at Brawn, it also made sense (when he had such a commanding lead in the championship) not to push un-necessarily (the "50p" part which stopped Damon from winning in the Arrows for instance). Jenson still had a very good race to win the championship from mid pack at the last race of the season (while still having a number of gremlins through the year which didnt help matters)

He was a good driver in his prime. 2009 was well past his prime. JB would never of won a championship unless he had the fastest car. JB is a good smooth driver but he is not a special driver. I'm not a JB hater just a realist. I cheer him on as I like to see our british lads do well.

He kept Hamilton honest for three years in a McLaren (even with two very decent cars) - and over those three years actually won more points than LH.

Guess LH isnt that special either in that case

I have been thinking on this bit for a while since you posted it. Why do you think the cars are more mentally demanding, I would say less mentally demanding than having to manually select your own gear and a box that won't let you downshift incorrectly? Or nursing a car with your own feet rather than a dial selection. Yes there have been dials galore added to the wheel over the years but still very little of that has been done on their own. The selections are given to them, they are just the monkey turning the dial.

I also think because drivers are needed less and less in the set up of cars and even less for developement that they can put younger and younger drivers in the car. Yes they have simulators but that's only because they can't go testing like they used to. I think the ease of the cars to drive has allowed kids with 12 races to jump into an f1 car.

If drivers are just "monkeys" then why arent they all driving a perfect quali lap every single time?

Not only that , its not like its just one dial , there must be 10-20 on the wheel alone these days......and doing this at anywhere between 40-200MPH - not like sitting at your desk and doing it charging into a corner (and braking just the right amount etc etc) without considering the gear changes being done simultaneously with other fingers etc etc.

Just because it was done a different way 10-20 years ago, doesnt mean automatically that (for instance) Graham Hill, Senna, Stewart et al would be able to contend with today's cars (even if they were 20 today)
 
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