Soldato
absolute bull**** !
F1 2015 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!
- Thread starter ~Mike~
- Start date
absolute bull**** !
Hulk confirmed as retained by Force India next season. Hardly a shocker as he has a contract anyway. Still would love to see him in a 'better' car
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/20/nico-hulkenberg-force-india-2015-f1
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/20/nico-hulkenberg-force-india-2015-f1
Soldato
McLaren have confirmed sporting director Sam Michael is leaving at the end of the season to return to Australia. @andrewbensonf1
Man of Honour
First half of the season maybe, but 2nd half of the season the brawn car was actually pretty bad. Other teams were developing while the brawn was still the same as day 1. Only a good driver could have brought that championship home.
Soldato
Better than good - outstanding. A master of mediocrity.
Soldato
I'm still not sure why McLaren took him on. He helped Williams go to the back of the pack and now the same is happening with McLaren.
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Soldato
I have no idea why he was hired, he's done sweet fa... as far as i can tell all he did was get the pit crew up to speed in terms of their fitness. apart from that, zilch. Won't be missed as much as he's probably a nice guy, but we need members who can get this team back to winning ways.
He is a nice bloke
Indeed. McLaren were playing happy families at the time.
They didnt want to step on any toes and they all just wanted to get along.
Ron Denis saw this, got rid of Whitmarsh (who apparently was at the root of this philosophy) and wants to focus on winning again.
Once Alonso arrives, focus will be on winning.
McLaren are about to make a big commitment, as are Honda.
2 years ago I stated that Merc will be the team to challenge RBR, as their team philosophy was clear - get rid of deadwood, hire the best and win at all costs. Brawn was dumped, as was MSc. New management was assembled and the results are clear to see.
The same is now happening at McLaren.
What I would like to know is who will partner Alonso. Button could be forced into a (contractually) No.2 position, which IMO would be best (I rate Button very highly as a No.2 driver). KMAG is woeful...I mean this guy has to be the worst driver of the top teams, since Heiki left McLaren a few years ago. KMAG should be banished from F1.
Maldonado is the only driver who comes to mind who is worse than KMAG, but at least Maldo brings in big money and big audiences to F1...which is good for the sport.
Soldato
Can't take anything you say seriously bro, you said two seasons ago that Vettel was the best F1 driver of all time. Or at least one of the best. Now everyone knows he just got lucky to be in the best car for four years on the trot, and Daniel Ricciardo has proved over the course of an F1 season that Vettel is just an ordinary driver.
An interesting excerpt from a recent autosport interview with Jenson Button summed things up perfectly....
"There are always three drivers people pick out as being better than the rest [we assume he means Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel - ed]; I totally disagree with that. I think they've found themselves in the right position at the right time on more occasions than others."
Soldato
********. I don't care how good the car is, you don't win 4 championships on the trot without being very good. Well, unless the car really is that good but your teammate was Alex Yoong.
He was good before the blown diffusers and he excelled with them.
That he has struggled to adjust to the torque and lack of EBD doesn't make him ordinary, it just means he's in all likelihood not going into the hall of greatness among the true top, top notch drivers throughout history.
Caporegime
Inferior sportsman in denies better sportsmen are better than him shocker! News at 11!
Come on. Button has to think like that; he's not going to turn round and admit he's 6th or 7th best on the grid, is he? He's not going to turn round and go "yes, I only won my championship because Brawn spotted a loophole in the rules and gave me a car head-and-shoulders above the rest and thus temporarily halted my slide into irrelevance" is he?
Vettel has been found out this year; but it's not like a lot of people weren't questioning his talent in previous years.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
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People who win titles end up doing so through luck more than anything else. So often rules change, someone gets it right and the car has an advantage which it often carries through to the next big rule change unless there is some other change. IE Brawn put in the most cash into the 2009 car but HOnda pull out and the actual season was different. Had Honda not pulled out what would have been Honda would likely have dominated for a couple of years and been up there in the best couple of cars for most of the past 5 years.
Being in the right car at the right time matters hugely to titles. But people have considered Alonso one of it not the best driver in the past 5 years despite never being in the right car.
Hamilton has been mostly very well regarded since 2008 despite never being in the best car(and at several points a very poor car). Vettel out of that three really is someone who was in the right car at the right time. Had he used his pull last year to move to Ferrari this year maybe, people might be blaming the car alone and forgiving Vettel(though ALonso would likely be smashing him to pieces). But at the same time I and many others never really felt Vettel was a top driver based on actually watching races. If you factored in only titles/points you'd rate Vettel as the clear best driver. But how many people wondered if Vettel would look as dominant if the car wasn't by a mile the best or in harder to drive cars, not just a few.
I don't think Button is wrong in terms purely of titles/points and how most people seem to judge drivers based on titles, for me titles/points doesn't have a huge bearing on who I think is a good driver at all. For the lets say, fans I would say are more intelligent, not many considered Vettel the best based purely off points. Of the guys regarded as great drivers regardless of titles, they show that ability in every car they drive and it has nothing to do with luck or being in the right car at the right time. Hamilton looked good in 2009 both when it was a dog of a car in the first half, he was still manhandling a poor car in a way you could see he was driving excellently and later on as the car improved he looked great on track again.
But Button is making a rather daft statement as the only time he's looked close to winning a title was when he got lucky and was in the right car at the right time.
Being in the right car at the right time matters hugely to titles. But people have considered Alonso one of it not the best driver in the past 5 years despite never being in the right car.
Hamilton has been mostly very well regarded since 2008 despite never being in the best car(and at several points a very poor car). Vettel out of that three really is someone who was in the right car at the right time. Had he used his pull last year to move to Ferrari this year maybe, people might be blaming the car alone and forgiving Vettel(though ALonso would likely be smashing him to pieces). But at the same time I and many others never really felt Vettel was a top driver based on actually watching races. If you factored in only titles/points you'd rate Vettel as the clear best driver. But how many people wondered if Vettel would look as dominant if the car wasn't by a mile the best or in harder to drive cars, not just a few.
I don't think Button is wrong in terms purely of titles/points and how most people seem to judge drivers based on titles, for me titles/points doesn't have a huge bearing on who I think is a good driver at all. For the lets say, fans I would say are more intelligent, not many considered Vettel the best based purely off points. Of the guys regarded as great drivers regardless of titles, they show that ability in every car they drive and it has nothing to do with luck or being in the right car at the right time. Hamilton looked good in 2009 both when it was a dog of a car in the first half, he was still manhandling a poor car in a way you could see he was driving excellently and later on as the car improved he looked great on track again.
But Button is making a rather daft statement as the only time he's looked close to winning a title was when he got lucky and was in the right car at the right time.
Soldato
I'm not saying there isn't a degree of luck, but of all the drivers who win the title which I would call less than top tier:
Mike Hawthorn
Graham Hill
Denny Hulme
Nelson Piquet (the car Gods were shining down on him 3 times!)
Keke Rosberg
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve
Jenson Button
I'm not saying any of them didn't deserve the title in the year(s) they won it, but they weren't among the strongest in their era. Each have been dominated by a teammate.
Given that's, what, 11 championships out of a possible 63, it's fair to say one of the best drivers won the majority of the time. Of course, the top drivers rise to the top cars generally, but still, especially earlier in F1 the reliability was such that the best driver far from dominated, even in the fastest car.
Conversely, if you're one of the many who think Alonso is the best driver currently, he's been unlucky (or had poor judgement of team) in only winning 2 titles. Hamilton only 1. Peterson only won 1. Clark only 2.
Soldato
Stewart came along is his debut season and started equalling him instantly (and would have beaten him but for unreliability). Clark just mashed him into the carpet.