F1 2016 tyre rules
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Soldato
Not to this extent, as you well know. Anyone remember a race last year when they said to Nico on lap 4.
"Nico think of fuel saving" "LOOK AFTER YOUR TIRES"
Or are you saying that the top F1 drivers are talking rubbish?
It has always been to this extent. The increase in broadcasting of radio messages has just made more visible a strategy culture that's been in F1 forever.
F1 has always been about managing something. A lot of the time it's been fuel and/or tyres.
F1 has always been about managing something. A lot of the time it's been fuel and/or tyres.
Soldato
As you would have known the designed-to-degrade tire only came in in 2011.
But it looks like the "designed-to-degrade" tire will change in 2017
they're also looking at lower downforce for 2017.It's about time FIA\Bernie\teams listened to the drivers.
Soldato
Do you genuinely believe that there wasn't fuel/tyre management going on prior to 2011?
The only way I can understand you saying that is if you only started watching F1 in 2011...
The only way I can understand you saying that is if you only started watching F1 in 2011...
Soldato
Read a few posts up dude
Even the F1 drivers are sick of it.
"Bernie Ecclestone backs F1 drivers on tyres demands"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35423688
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/drivers-demanding-a-return-to-flat-out-f1/
I wonder why Pirelli turned down merc for the test at Paul Ricard. And there wasn't one car with a Merc engine!
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Up to 2009 had refueling, strategy was fuel limited.
2010 had indestructable Bridgestones and 1 stop races.
2011 was the first year of Pirelli where they were instructed to have more than 1 stop a race.
Whats your solution, deuse?
2010 had indestructable Bridgestones and 1 stop races.
2011 was the first year of Pirelli where they were instructed to have more than 1 stop a race.
Whats your solution, deuse?
Soldato
What's the matter with you? I've already posted what needs to be done. And the drivers have said the same.
Soldato
You better ask the FIA\Teams that. It looks like they've listened to the drivers for once and the changes will come in 2017.
So maybe you could email the FIA and ask them? there is a meeting next week with Pirelli. So we will find out then.
There is a meeting at Heathrow today to talk about using the Merc designed Halo protection.
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The concept of a "discussion" forum seems to be alien to some people.
Deuse, I'm attempting to talk about what we (I.e. me and you and others on here) think, mainly because we can be pretty confident that the FIA will balls it up.
So, with that in mind, would you like to expand on your own suggestions for improving F1?
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Soldato
Weren't the current tires supposed to be "flat out" tires? They were supposed to give a lot of grip then drop off a cliff, just like EVERYONE asked for. The teams just decided that they could go faster by not driving flat out and by looking after the tires.
The only way I can think of to prevent that from happening with any tires they develop is to make some which can last 1.5 full race distances, thus preventing them from being the limiting factor. That way the drivers can push 100% for as much as they want. Basically, just bring Bridgestone back
The only way I can think of to prevent that from happening with any tires they develop is to make some which can last 1.5 full race distances, thus preventing them from being the limiting factor. That way the drivers can push 100% for as much as they want. Basically, just bring Bridgestone back
Soldato
I already posted it in another thread. Even you said things about it like "watch GP2" or something like that.
Just make sure you and moaner remember next time
His back on ignore anyway
Soldato
Infinite/grippy tyres will reduce the overtaking even more. You can't pass someone doing 200mph around a 90-degree bend if your car can do 200.05mph, which is the sort of margins we're getting down to these days.
The truth seems to be that the cars are a lot closer these days than before, for more of the race than before. By close, I mean in terms of lap time potential they are all within 107% comfortably and during the race they are pretty consistent. The steep tyre deg curve was supposed to mean that you could either go fast and "fall off" or drive more tentatively and go longer. Over a "stint", the sums are pretty simple - you might gain 0.2-0.5s a lap over 10 laps (2-5s advantage) but fall short of the end of the race forcing an additional stop which might lose you 15+ seconds. The conclusion is obvious! If you can make your tyres last an additional few laps and that is enough to offset an extra stop then it is the fastest way, even if the cars can go faster outright. The aim of the race is not to set the fastest lap, it is to finish the race distance as fast as possible and driving flat out is not necessarily the solution to that. These target loads lead to target lap times and the teams target lap times won't be too dissimilar, so there's no real incentive to actually overtake unless the aero loss of following is pushing your tyres out of the window. You don't get massive deltas between teams because they are all too similar for that to be the case now. You no longer get the sort of low speed masters vs high speed masters car builds now, they are virtually identical.
This will exist no matter what the compounds available - introduce super super sticky rubber that lasts the entire race? Fine, it will become a procession as they all manage their fuel. Introduce refuelling? Fine, it will become a procession as they all manage engine wear. Remove the engine limit? Fine, it will become a race to spend as much as possible on one-shot engines again and the sport will disintegrate.
IMO, the solution isn't chasing the minutiae of detail around tyre compounds and how much fuel should be allowed and so on. The solution is a cost cap that is high enough for the top teams to feel they can extract value from being in the sport but low enough that junior teams can enter. This cost cap would cover the entire team's operating budget and so with the right amount of advertising revenue could mean the teams were actually profitable or at least sustainable/viable as a business rather than a massive PR exercise. Create some sort of incentive structure for the constructors to gain a competitive advantage the less they spend - maybe a Constructors point or two for every £1m they are under the cap or something. Then couple that with removal of all non-safety critical technical regulation bar some overall dimension limitations. Lets see what the engineers can really do within a framework that encourages ingenuity but also rewards being thrifty.
We'd once again see nutcase cars with 6 wheels and fans sticking them to the tarmac and that might just actually be exciting!
The truth seems to be that the cars are a lot closer these days than before, for more of the race than before. By close, I mean in terms of lap time potential they are all within 107% comfortably and during the race they are pretty consistent. The steep tyre deg curve was supposed to mean that you could either go fast and "fall off" or drive more tentatively and go longer. Over a "stint", the sums are pretty simple - you might gain 0.2-0.5s a lap over 10 laps (2-5s advantage) but fall short of the end of the race forcing an additional stop which might lose you 15+ seconds. The conclusion is obvious! If you can make your tyres last an additional few laps and that is enough to offset an extra stop then it is the fastest way, even if the cars can go faster outright. The aim of the race is not to set the fastest lap, it is to finish the race distance as fast as possible and driving flat out is not necessarily the solution to that. These target loads lead to target lap times and the teams target lap times won't be too dissimilar, so there's no real incentive to actually overtake unless the aero loss of following is pushing your tyres out of the window. You don't get massive deltas between teams because they are all too similar for that to be the case now. You no longer get the sort of low speed masters vs high speed masters car builds now, they are virtually identical.
This will exist no matter what the compounds available - introduce super super sticky rubber that lasts the entire race? Fine, it will become a procession as they all manage their fuel. Introduce refuelling? Fine, it will become a procession as they all manage engine wear. Remove the engine limit? Fine, it will become a race to spend as much as possible on one-shot engines again and the sport will disintegrate.
IMO, the solution isn't chasing the minutiae of detail around tyre compounds and how much fuel should be allowed and so on. The solution is a cost cap that is high enough for the top teams to feel they can extract value from being in the sport but low enough that junior teams can enter. This cost cap would cover the entire team's operating budget and so with the right amount of advertising revenue could mean the teams were actually profitable or at least sustainable/viable as a business rather than a massive PR exercise. Create some sort of incentive structure for the constructors to gain a competitive advantage the less they spend - maybe a Constructors point or two for every £1m they are under the cap or something. Then couple that with removal of all non-safety critical technical regulation bar some overall dimension limitations. Lets see what the engineers can really do within a framework that encourages ingenuity but also rewards being thrifty.
We'd once again see nutcase cars with 6 wheels and fans sticking them to the tarmac and that might just actually be exciting!
@DRZ, agree with pretty much all that, the only issue is allowing too much freedom might end up with one or two teams being way out in front, good job & great for them but no good for fans. Think extreme versions of DDRS, F-duct etc.
Why not just repost or point to it next time rather than being difficult, no one is going to keep tabs on your opinions :/
I already posted it in another thread. Even you said things about it like "watch GP2" or something like that.
Just make sure you and moaner remember next time
His back on ignore anyway
Why not just repost or point to it next time rather than being difficult, no one is going to keep tabs on your opinions :/
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See, DRZ gets it deuse. You can't just say things like "flat out tyres!!!!111ONE" and expect that to be it, problem solved, everything fixed.
Theres a lot more to consider, you have to look at the wider picture, think about the knock-on effects, think about how your suggestion will be adopted by teams and fit into a strategy.
Perhaps you might want to do that?
Theres a lot more to consider, you have to look at the wider picture, think about the knock-on effects, think about how your suggestion will be adopted by teams and fit into a strategy.
Perhaps you might want to do that?
Soldato
You can always put me ignore. That's the best way forward
I'm not going to repeat myself time and time again.
In that same thread mr moaner\skyboy\Skeeter said "I've already posted what I think F1 should do" That was it.
But I never seen you question that hmmmmm.
Back on topic.
Soldato
From Crash.net
"Bernie Ecclestone says he is willing to stand by requests from drivers to introduce tyres that allow them to push throughout a race, but says they must meet halfway with Pirelli regarding testing"
Well that's the tires sorted. Now to cut down on downforce. Another thing the drivers want
"Bernie Ecclestone says he is willing to stand by requests from drivers to introduce tyres that allow them to push throughout a race, but says they must meet halfway with Pirelli regarding testing"
Well that's the tires sorted. Now to cut down on downforce. Another thing the drivers want
With that solution, how will Pirelli solve the situation that, no matter what the tyres are designed to do, driving at 80% and making one pit stop is often faster and less risky than driving at 100% and making 2 or 3 pit stops?
You could drive flat out all race on the current tyres if you wanted too. But people don't because its not the fastest strategy.
You could drive flat out all race on the current tyres if you wanted too. But people don't because its not the fastest strategy.