So Red Bull and McLaren have no r&d facilities?
F1 Testing 2012 - Week 3, Barcelona
- Thread starter Duke
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So Red Bull and McLaren have no r&d facilities?
Ferrari has it's own board of directors and it's own company finances, the F1 team funds itself.
What Ross Brawn and Stepney? and the 90's were not very successful..
Man of Honour
Did I say that? You are a strange poster Mr Men. You post things as fact and then when somebody challenges you, you try and make out that you were talking about something else.
You said Fiat give Ferrari nothing. I corrected you were wrong. End of story. That is my sole interest in the conversation, I have no interest in your debate with Skeeter, I have no idea what Ferrari/FIAT's relative budget or facilities are compared to other teams.
But with the luxury of not having to find funding for any of the resources Fiat provide them with.
Rubbish, so Mercedes has to pay who to access the R&D? Who do McLaren pay for R&D?
Don't forget McLaren, Red Bull purchase engines, they save lots by doing so, Ferrari make their own.
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I was commenting on money, Fiat do not line Ferrari's pockets, I find it hard to believe you could not follow that. Ferrari get access to R&D at Fiat, Fiat own Ferrari, how can you be given something from the company that owns you?
Fiat owns Ferrari, how is it a luxury to have access to the owners R&D?
McLaren own their R&D, how is it funded?
How is Mercedes R&D funded?
Ferrari also has also used Toyota's wind tunnel, it's not free.
Going back to your original post, no team has a bottomless pit of money. Every team has a pot of some size filled with a combination of resources and finance from a variety of sources.
Given this, I don't think its beyond reason to suggest that Ferrari's pot is not at least a match, or more than likely far deeper than Red Bull Racings.
Ferrari are a Formula 1 team that have existed for over 60 years. They have become engrained in the very fabric of Formula 1 and have achieved great success in the sport. Their parent company is a global car manufacturer with motorsport heritage both within itself and in a number of its subsidiaries, past and present, also spanning back over 60 years.
Red Bull are the current incarnation of a Formula 1 team that have existed for only 15 years, with all but the last few of those years not yielding much success. Their parent company is a fizzy drinks maker with an annual revenue figure less than 1 tenth that of Ferrari's parent company, and no other motorsport or racing subsidiaries or heritage to speak of.
Recent relative success is not a basis for comparison. To suggest that Red Bull have unlimited funding and resources while Ferrari are somehow punching above their weight with a minuscule budget is quite ridiculous.
Given this, I don't think its beyond reason to suggest that Ferrari's pot is not at least a match, or more than likely far deeper than Red Bull Racings.
Ferrari are a Formula 1 team that have existed for over 60 years. They have become engrained in the very fabric of Formula 1 and have achieved great success in the sport. Their parent company is a global car manufacturer with motorsport heritage both within itself and in a number of its subsidiaries, past and present, also spanning back over 60 years.
Red Bull are the current incarnation of a Formula 1 team that have existed for only 15 years, with all but the last few of those years not yielding much success. Their parent company is a fizzy drinks maker with an annual revenue figure less than 1 tenth that of Ferrari's parent company, and no other motorsport or racing subsidiaries or heritage to speak of.
Recent relative success is not a basis for comparison. To suggest that Red Bull have unlimited funding and resources while Ferrari are somehow punching above their weight with a minuscule budget is quite ridiculous.
Ok nobody is a bottomless pit, Ferrari left FOTA because they could not trust RBR to stick to a budget, what does that tell you about pot sizes? Ferrari wanted to limit budgets, keep costs under control.
Ferrari's parent company do not matter, Ferrari F1 runs itself. History and Heritage also has nothing to do with resources or money to spend, see Toyota.
So back to your original point, why do you think Fiat has F1 resources to match RBR, McLaren and Mercedes?
Ferrari's parent company do not matter, Ferrari F1 runs itself. History and Heritage also has nothing to do with resources or money to spend, see Toyota.
So back to your original point, why do you think Fiat has F1 resources to match RBR, McLaren and Mercedes?
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Well redbull put 79million into their fund.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/busin...-helps-f1-team-to-chequered-flag-6717125.html
But their total funding is still well below other teams, or at least was.
Ferrari also put 80million in, so pretty much neck to neck, on the self fund part.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...uide-part-2-money-money-money-making-a-profit
2009 estimated mclarens at around $300million and Ferrari at $400million.
Rbr 2008 £125million.
2008 figures
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/09/22/toyota-has-biggest-f1-budget-4456m/
Supposed 2010 budgets
* Ferrari* * * * * * * * *£260m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* McLaren* * * * * * * *£137m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Mercedes* * * * * * *£173m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Williams* * * * * * * * *£85m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Renault* * * * * * * * £134m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Red Bull Racing* * * £134m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Toro Rosso* * * * * * £82m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Force India* * * * * * £78m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Sauber* * * * * * * * * £46m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Lotus* * * * * * * * * * £52m* * * * * * * * * * *
* Virgin* * * * * * * * * * £36m* * * * * * * * * * *
* HRT* * * * * * * * * * * £33m* * * * * * * * * * *
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/busin...-helps-f1-team-to-chequered-flag-6717125.html
But their total funding is still well below other teams, or at least was.
Ferrari also put 80million in, so pretty much neck to neck, on the self fund part.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...uide-part-2-money-money-money-making-a-profit
2009 estimated mclarens at around $300million and Ferrari at $400million.
Rbr 2008 £125million.
2008 figures
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/09/22/toyota-has-biggest-f1-budget-4456m/
Supposed 2010 budgets
* Ferrari* * * * * * * * *£260m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* McLaren* * * * * * * *£137m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Mercedes* * * * * * *£173m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Williams* * * * * * * * *£85m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Renault* * * * * * * * £134m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Red Bull Racing* * * £134m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Toro Rosso* * * * * * £82m* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Force India* * * * * * £78m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Sauber* * * * * * * * * £46m* * * * * * * * * * * *
* Lotus* * * * * * * * * * £52m* * * * * * * * * * *
* Virgin* * * * * * * * * * £36m* * * * * * * * * * *
* HRT* * * * * * * * * * * £33m* * * * * * * * * * *
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How does using the R&D that you own matter, you are surely not being serious? Fiat own Ferrari, Ferrari use their facility's that Fiat own, Fiat own Ferrari do you get that part?
You have not answered why you think R&D at Fiat = better than R&D at McLaren or Red Bull or Mercedes.
You have not answered why you think R&D at Fiat = better than R&D at McLaren or Red Bull or Mercedes.
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Haha. I knew you would try and cover up the fact you edited your post.
EDIT: Jesus, you've done it again!
I think Glaucus has put the final nail in this discussions coffin anyway.
Feel free to claim he's made those figures up though.
Personally, I can't see the point in trying to discuss something with someone when their posts keep changing every time you refresh the page.
EDIT: Jesus, you've done it again!
I think Glaucus has put the final nail in this discussions coffin anyway.
Feel free to claim he's made those figures up though.
Personally, I can't see the point in trying to discuss something with someone when their posts keep changing every time you refresh the page.
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